By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

Definitely an advantage being a bloke in drag if someone annoys you wallop with some power behind it but have read some stories of how being restricted in womens clothing some tgirls have had a good hid9ing from bigots.. Sad

My wifes said something similar about accepting crossdressing if it was someone elses husband but harder to accept me doing it.

If kids were to spot something it will be traces of mascara which "Dad" hasn't removed properly... My daughters said whats wrong with your eyes (opps spotted panda eyes)... "I'm just really tired"

"I would think many women don't mind men wearing women's clothing if they still look like men"

lol whats the point in that lol part of the fun is the transformation to try to look convincing.

"Then see all these female signals coming from the husband who was meant to be a heterosexual guy, signals the clothes alone don't seem to give off. I can see the clothes as eccentric - the extra stuff crosses some gender line that screws with my heterosexuality"

What signals? acting camp? putting on a voice? mincing about? - Things I don't really do.I suppose it try to act more fem and walk more fem but my wife says I'm different as ive told you before but I cant put my finger on what I do different or how I act different to be called "nicer when dressed"

You wont find more of real man than me and id stand by that - I just happen to like dressing like a woman makeup and all but I'm all man.

See your scenario of why does your husband seem gay if he fancies you dressed as a man..

Right .. for a woman if your husband tells you hes Gay or Bisexual what do you think how do you feel? scared, humiliated I don't know ..

Now if my wife sat me down and said to me "I'm Bisexual"... my reaction "Coooool" we feel different about bisexual women than women feel about bisexual men I'm willing to bet, after all whats our fantasy? 2 women in our beds..

I'm glad we're the crossdressers too as we're not confused at all lol.

What does a crossdresser want his wife to see when she sees him fully dressed?

I'm happy with her saying I could pass and I look nice.

Do you want her to see you as an attractive woman?

That would be a bonus but not expected..

Because, if she does, aren't you worried this could affect your attractiveness to her as a man?

No why would it?

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

What does a crossdresser want his wife to see when she sees him fully dressed? Do you want her to see you as an attractive woman? Because, if she does, aren't you worried this could affect your attractiveness to her as a man?

So my wife came upstairs 5-6 years ago when I was working from home what was she expecting to see when she brough me a cup of tea "if she would come in here adding her 10p worth I might find out" but what she said was wow you look like a woman, omg look at your legs and that's my dress you bitch.. talking later she told me I looked really convincing and my makeup was really good so I asked what she expected to find and she said she didn't really know what to expect .. but I know she didn't expect me to look convincing or be good at makeup so I felt pleased that she thought I looked ok which sort of answers the above.

It hasn't affected how she sees me as a man in as far as how attractive I am as a man she thinks of Davina as me in fancy dress.

I agree Katie just me but dressed differently away from the jogging bottoms, jeans or combat trousers, shirt or football top etc instead in a dress and heels and makeup etc... still me.

Well put Katie - under it all we're still us we can transform and use crossdressing to unwind and we can easily switch back to the alpha male albeit clean shaven for a while until the stubble surfaces lol

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

I think we can all drag some baggage around with us. How often is a crap day at work bought home? I think learning to switch off is important. Everyone deserves a little 'me' time.

I know that having kids is very demanding. My two are just hitting teens so hormones are all over the place. Xbox rage is the latest thing to cope with. It's also getting to the stage where my wife and I don't think we actually exist in their world apart from cleaning up after them and feeding them. If they had their way they'd live in their bedrooms!

I'm lucky that I have the crossdressing as me time when I can unwind. Life seems a little easier stepping into a different reality for a couple of hours. My wife doesn't get a lot of time to herself but then she's always keen to do family things so I think that her way of unwinding.

She's not really a 'girly' girl so I'm not sure spending time with me a Katie would really help her unwind. She always wanted boys as I don't think she could stand the whole teenage girl thing!

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

Gosh, the image thing could go either way. I always think my imagination is worse than reality, but it's built on reality so even seeing my husband dressed didn't stop my imagination running wild and what was actually rather normal grew into a monster! I don't think it would matter how often I saw him dressed (unless he was full time or something), each time just gave me more fuel for the fire. That's just me though as my head is crazy, lol. Your wife might currently have a very simple image of you and seeing you might ruin it - or she imagines you're wearing a girl skin like that character from Silence of the Lambs, lol.,

I also don't know if women compartmentalize very well. I know everything seems to come along for the ride with me and the crossdressing is with him even when we're doing things with family or whatever. I know I think about it more than he does, which is really silly! But I'm pretty sure that's one of the key differences between the genders? Men compartmentalize while women's experiences are all tangled together like a ball of wool.

Makes me think a husband might be better at accepting crossdressing than we wives?

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

What does a crossdresser want his wife to see when she sees him fully dressed? Do you want her to see you as an attractive woman? Because, if she does, aren't you worried this could affect your attractiveness to her as a man?

As you know I've never dressed in front of my wife but if I did I'd want her to see me as normal if that makes sense.

I don't want her to see me as some tragic caricature of a woman. I'd like to show her that I can look presentable, fashionable and well normal wearing the same sort of things as she'd wear. I'd hope it would put her mind at rest that I'm not dressing like Grayson Perry or Lily Savage.

I'd like her to think that I wouldn't turn any heads if I went out and that I wouldn't embarrass her. I don't need her to see me as an attractive woman I just want her to see me as me but dressed differently.

Obviously the biggest concern for anyone dressing in front of their wife or partner is how they are perceived.

I'm not sure if the mental image that my wife has conjured up in her head is better or worse than reality. If the reality isn't as bad as the mental image then is that a bonus?

I think that where women can actually accept and help their husband improve his image takes things on to a different level.

Maybe it does require some compartmentalising of your life and feelings. You know, this is one part of our lives and in this part she will help him to understand what it is to be feminine by helping express this part of his life in a way that is normal. This colour, style, shape etc suits you better, don't wear so much make up etc if you want to look natural.

I think if you can compartmentalise things then you can have different feeling for different parts of your lives. After all most people have different feelings for different people. The love you have for your parents, children or spouse are all different. How you treat them is different. How you socialise with friends or colleague is different. We all put on acts for different people but probably the one person you don't is your spouse. They are the one person that you should be the most natural with because of that special relationship.

I think that most crossdressers hope that their wife can look through all the paraphernalia and see it is still him underneath it all. The man she loves. Once it's all off he's still a man and to a degree it's just a game of dress up. Ok I understand that there is more to it than that but for the Davina type crossdresser it's not going to go any further.

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

Now see, that's where a crossdresser has a huge advantage over us girls - your slap up the back of the head would probably do some real damage and definitely make him think twice! lol Reminds me of my youth and hitting clubs with some gay friends dressed in drag for fun and wow, no one messed with me with my over six foot 'lady' friends lol. Funny how that was fun but if it was my husband it would be really weird.

And I know all this is deeper than just fun, but it's also good to know a Davina type isn't really a threat and public humiliation likely won't happen. Not sure about the kids as we're not telling ours - I just wonder how observant they are later on if Dad slips up or whatever. Guess we wait and see. More waiting!

Katie, I really don't mind the clothing. I would think many women don't mind men wearing women's clothing if they still look like men. There's no mixed signals then, and you're just a guy expressing his freedom of fashion. When you add in shape wear and wigs and nails then yes, you might be using things we also use, but it's a step too far, for me anyway. I then see all these female signals coming from the husband who was meant to be a heterosexual guy, signals the clothes alone don't seem to give off. I can see the clothes as eccentric - the extra stuff crosses some gender line that screws with my heterosexuality.

I guess the simplest way to describe it is my lizard brain processes things differently than my logical brain and seeing my husband with curves and long hair makes me go 'eeeeewwwwwwww!!!'

It's pretty primal that reaction, lol.

You know, flipping sides again, I was thinking what a risk showing a partner your full dressing might be. I know the reaction I feel is intense enough to have me contemplate why I married him. I really have to dig back into my head and demand my logical brain come out or I start having this commentary in my head where I tell myself that I married a man and now he's turned into a woman so I should leave and go find a real man!

Remember, that's lizard brain talking. Emma, if she can maybe answer, has either a more evolved primal brain, her husband isn't that passable when dressed, or she really isn't as repelled by the female image as I am? Hmmm....

Anyway, flipping it again, and I'm now the crossdresser standing in front of my husband dressed fully as a man and what am I thinking? I guess I want him to see me as an attractive man but why? Surely if he does, that sort of screws up my relationship with him as he's not gay. Why do I want him to see me this way? If he sees me as a man, does this mean I'm an ugly woman for being able to pull this off, and will he not be sexually attracted to me anymore? Or am I having gay thoughts because I'm really a gay man in a female body?

Oh, I'm so glad you're the crossdressers and not me as I'm really confused right now haha.

Anyway, I really never looked at it this way before, but what does a crossdresser want his wife to see when she sees him fully dressed? Do you want her to see you as an attractive woman? Because, if she does, aren't you worried this could affect your attractiveness to her as a man?

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

It's actually not that hard to see past the clothes, but the fake boobs, make up, nails, wigs etc are really difficult to ignore and give off all the wrong signals.

But without the fake boobies and the wig and makeup we'd not achieve the goal of trying to look as convincing as possible which is part of the fun.

Still think the hairy leg growing is a bit different but ok I wouldn't like the wife with hairy legs but to crossdress Fto M you don't necessarily need hairy legs.

The fake penis like a strap on? oh er? whats she going to do with that?

Even if I wasn't a crossdresser if she wanted to crossdress id think it weird but would go with it as long as most of the time she dressed as a woman its an occasional thing right?

The female image issue a;so turns my wife off sexually but says I do a pretty good job at it.. It's like a strange pseudo lesbian relationship yet with your heterosexual husband lol we'd like that but wont force it

But under it all its not a lesbian or gay relationship is it as its a man and a women sameas t girls who get off with other t girls its a man on a man that's gay or bisexual but how youre dressed as man or woman opposite sex is opposite sex.

Being private t girls and expecting in this scenario that wives who are f t m would also be private dressers so people finding out is minimal risk but children at certain ages may notice... I'm reaching that now as my kids get older.

Your husband crossdressing is not a threat.

The internal drive for crossdressing has many root sources as we've discussed...and can stop at many levels some dress in private some want to experience being out and about..

it's also occasional and in another post we've all said given more opportunity to dress doesn't mean we'd all go for it as you can have too much crossdressing and get bored not to say women should ever get bored dressing nice for us men :D

I'm biast and not sad at all for being a crossdresser its fun.

How very dare you set rules about not being able to crossdress in scenarios :D

I can imagine being out as Davina and a guy touch my bum closely followed by a massive slap round the back of his head lol

Katie, I forgot to mention your pat on the bum comment which I'll admit made me laugh, lol. Welcome to our world - Anything in a dress is fair game? not to nice people like us but youre right there are blokes who think like this.

OMG we are a prize as tgirls to many straight men - the girl with the extra, uh hum, 'bits'. straight men in denial of their sexuality that is..

My reason for going out in public dressed wouldn't be to enjoy the attention of men or oblivious, it would just be to experience what its like to be out dressed as a woman ....

Keep the questions coming Sindy I will take some of the questions from in there and add them to the forum page ive added to gather more answers over time

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

Hi Sindy

I'm really surprised by the fact you see past the clothes. To me that's the main statement. I don't tend to wear the wig, make up or nails. I do have my fake boobs but only to make the clothes look right. I've even considered the fake hips to fill out the skirts properly! For me It's about making the clothes fit properly.

What I don't get is that all the things you don't like are also used by women. My wig came from a supplier of women's wig, my make up from Boots and my boobs weren't from a specialist supplier but one that sells to women looking to enhance their assets! My shape wear etc are all designed for women so to a degree I don't feel I'm faking it if I'm just using the same stuff for the purpose it was made - enhancement.

Don't worry but crossdressers have the same fears as you do. We care about our kids and how people think about us but you also have to understand that the intensity of the drive to do it is so strong at times that it overrides these concerns. I think the fact we can dress privately in the safety of our own homes makes it bearable. If I was forced out then it would make my life very difficult.

I've never felt sad. I think we've probably all felt 'Why me?' but then we have so many other things to be grateful for that you cope. Once you've come to terms with it then you can accept it for what it is. As Davina says it is fun and does allow you to unwind. I think there is more to it than just that because of this urge to do it and I think that maybe that is what most of us are searching for when trying to discover the why.

It is still bizarre that a man in a dress should illicit the same attention as a woman in a dress. Maybe in extremes and done in jest at times but there are serious admirers out there who don't seem to question their sexuality when pursuing a man in a dress.

I'm sure some crossdressers do go out for the attention but I'm not sure any would be oblivious to it. You can hardly miss a pat on the bum but a grope of a fake boob - maybe if you're not paying attention lol. I guess we'd be the same as any woman in not wanting that sort of attention so it does give us a little more empathy than the average man!

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

It's actually not that hard to see past the clothes, but the fake boobs, make up, nails, wigs etc are really difficult to ignore and give off all the wrong signals. That's why the wife in my scenario goes the whole way like a typical crossdresser and keeps her legs hairy, hides her curves and wears a fake penis. Can you truly look past this? And no, you're not dressed as women. You're pretending you're a straight guy with zero cross dressing proclivity.

Also, I know metrosexual guys have made shaving chests and legs etc the norm, but whether you shave or not you still grow hair there, while women tend to be a lot less hairy by default which is why most crossdressers prefer a smooth body when dressed. So I'm fairly certain any FTM cross dresser would not shave her legs if she wanted to get the full masculine experience, but maybe one will jump in and clear this up!

I just know this female image issue has been the most difficult thing for me to wrap my head around - especially how it turns me completely off. It's like a strange pseudo lesbian relationship yet with your heterosexual husband. Flip it and you have a pseudo gay relationship with your sometimes masculine wife. How's that working for you? :-D

And the other issue is where other people see your spouse as a freak. My husband is private dresser yet it's always been a worry as if you've had children, as I have, this is actually a very sad thought. I don't care much anymore about how I look to others as I'll deal if it ever got weird, but my kids will always have the 'freak' dad and I hate that. It's not fair or justified. But that's how society is so maybe, for me, my husband will always be a bit of a threat and that's why I still struggle? Hmmm, food for thought...

But that's my side of things, again! If I try to flip all this, and think how I'd feel if my husband was worried people saw me as a freak...you know, I can't. I can't even fathom the kind of internal drive that leads to public crossdressing or any crossdressing. I just can't. It must be very very strong, and all a wife can do is step back, wait and see. We spend a lot of time waiting.

I'm definitely too biased to answer my own question I realise, lol, and all I can feel when I imagine I'm a crossdresser is sad. Yet none of you seem to feel sad! And Davina is definitely biased too, as no, you can't dress up as a woman when your wife crossdresses as it's my scenario and you're a non-dresser, so there, lol.

Katie, I forgot to mention your pat on the bum comment which I'll admit made me laugh, lol. Welcome to our world - the one where anything in a dress is fair game. And just think, you're a prize to many straight men - the girl with the extra, uh hum, 'bits'. Another reason I don't understand men who crossdress in public - they either enjoy this attention or are oblivious, both of which are a concern to a spouse.

Really interesting answers. Keep 'em coming!

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

Thats the thing i could see past the clothes ad know its her and id be ok being intimate with her if she was "crossdressed as a man"

Can't see my wife ever doing this but if she did id deal with it but its easier seeing as I'm a crossdresser so I can emphasise with the fun and want to dress up

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Switching places...

Just picking up on Davina's point about intimacy. I can understand that undressed your wife would still be her.

But women and men are very different naked, hair or no hair. It's just as much to do with feel as noticeable physical features. Women are soft with curves whereas men are firm and shapeless. I know there will always be exceptions but I think you could probably tell blindfolded!

I think the difficulty I'd have is being intimate whilst she was dressed as a man. It's the journey from being a man to being a woman that would be hard. It wouldn't matter if I was dressed as woman or not it's just something I'd struggle with. I'm sure that this is the point that Sindy and many other wives have struggled with when viewing their man dressed as a woman. It's seeing past the clothes and all they represent.

As I said previously the clothes represent masculinity or femininity and maybe this is what creates the attraction or aversion and not the sex of the person actually wearing them.

It's just a thought.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Switching places...

Yes I have really tried hard to see how it is on the other side? But knowing what I know about my Crossdressing and why I do it clouds my judgement on this but does make me think more of why is it so much of an issue hence this blog..

Tossing away ……….. lol……..soz…… as much of the subjective baggage we carry around and pondering on “what it would be like if your wife was the crossdresser and not you?”

OK Sindys scene.. My wife is now the same type of crossdresser as me so she doesn't change much in every day life other than never shaving legs or underarms.

Now hold on a minute I’m a man and I shave my under arms and legs to an extent.. this is the opposite to a man as if I shaved my legs I may get funny looks if a woman doesnt shave her legs she might get funny looks but i’ll go along with a hairy legged wife for this scenrio … But… No one would know or notice anything about me in male mode to feel I may be a crossdresser I dont change my male appearance to that effect but having hairy legs may draw attention and sniggers etc.

(She wears stockings to hide hairy legs if she ever wears a dress – If she wore stockings and her legs were hairy as long as they were 100 denier and hairs didnt show through happy days Wow wife in stockings).

She's feminine in every day life and looks after herself and likes to look nice – so she would shave her legs. She's a private dresser… I don tknow any FTM crossdressers is hairy legs something they would do?

But, every month or so she dresses fully as a man. This means hiding all remnants of her femininity by binding breasts, wearing a wig, hairpiece, fake penis, all of it.

Fair enough I would say bearing in mind when shes dressed as a man i’d be dressed as a woman.

The one time you've dared to see her, you didn't recognise her at all as she looked like a smaller, slightly odd version of a man. Not your wife. You can tell she's doing her best but she will obviously never pass but she looks happy anyway…. Ok still ok with this so far if thats what she wants and needs to do for whatever reason.

She would love it if you were intimate with her like this, but she's fine if you just watch sport on telly and drink a few beers, like a boys night in. She's been doing this since she was 8 years old and wore her brother's clothes. Bit of a shock but ok guys night in nothing really different from a saturday or sunday with sport on TV anway as husband and wife.. the intimate bit isnt a worry either its still her..

So, forget as much as you can that you crossdress .. damn so i’m not dressed as a woman and imagine instead that you're the husband who has discovered this about his feminine wife. What is your reaction? Its weird but if its not perverted weird so what?

If she wanted to dress as a man once a month id not be overly concerned in fact it would insist that id be Davina

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Switching places...

I think it's probably tougher on the partner than the actual crossdresser based on the ones I've seen out in public (shopping centres). Sometimes you can see the trail of destruction with giggle teenage girls who seem to be the worst!

Most of the time people are too busy and don't bat an eyelid but I'm sure the atmosphere changes late at night when the effects of alcohol will loosen peoples tongues.

I think it is very brave of any woman to 'stand by her man' when he may be subject to abuse. They must feel it even more deeply as they are not only defending him but themselves by association.

It also doesn't help that he's probably in no state of dress to defend himself or her properly. I once read a post from an army guy and ex-cage fighter who got set upon by a couple of blokes. Had he been in male attire he could have defended himself (he was trained to) but he was equally as vulnerable in the way he was dressed as any woman in a similar situation. Heels and tight skirts are deliberately designed to make women vulnerable!

It's funny I was thinking about harassment this morning. There is a lot in the news about women being sexually harassed and I was wondering if the harassment was to do with their femininity or sex. I had forgotten altogether about a time I went to a fancy dress party in drag. Not a very convincing woman but I was still flirted with and even had my bum patted by a guy! Was it because they were reacting to the way I was dressed and thought it was acceptable?

I don't get the whole admirer thing. These guys are supposedly heterosexual men so it must be the femininity they are reacting to and not the sex of the person wearing the clothes.

What does everyone else think?

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Switching places...

That is a very real thought from this side of things, Katie. I would also feel for my husband if he went out dressed and was laughed at. Who wants to see their spouse thought of in such a way? Like they're the 'special' person in the room?

It is a valid concern so you have tapped into the other side better than you realise.

I really like this personal chat. It's quite revealing and will hopefully help others connect on some deeper level. Please ask questions too, Katie and Davina and Sarah and now hopefully Johan! Emma and co will chime in I'm sure. We just have to woo them back here lol.

I have endless questions rattling around but really it's this more intimate chatter that helps me with my stubborn head. It's such a breath of fresh air coming here when I'm feeling annoyed about it all and know I can have a conversation with other sane people without needlessly harassing my husband who seriously hasn't done anything. My marriage was a mess when I used to harass him.

Besides, chatting here and I don't feel so alone with it all.

Thanks for being here. x

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Switching places...

I've tried so many times to put myself in my wife position. It's difficult because I come with my own biases and so they are always going to cloud my judgement. You've heard the arguments from crossdressers about it being fun, helping to unwind etc so these are always going to permeate through in any answers we give. I guess the best person to ask is a non-crossdressing man but as there aren't any here you'll have to do with our answers!

I'd like to think I was accepting and maybe give her some leeway. I don't think I could ever be intimate with her dressed that way but I think I could be around her dressed. Sitting in front of the TV talking football and drinking beer would be pretty normal for my household. It's not to far away from the way some women dress anyway!

I'd maybe a little embarrassed to be around her at first but I think familiarity would help. If she feels better about herself doing it then that's a good thing, I think that there are far worse things that she could do. Retail therapy!

I read a great quote ' True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it'.

I would try and find out why she wanted to do it. After all I love her and if it's part of her then it's not something I'm going to change. I'm going to have to learn to live with my feelings.

If she wanted to keep it private then that would be fine. I'd really feel for her if we ever went out, people may look and stare and even giggle behind her back. I'd find this hurtful as I'd know she was just being herself. Why do people always think that a woman dressed in a butch way is a lesbian? She's not and she doesn't want to be a man it's just an escapism. Why don't people take the time to understand her?