Hi Debs

Sorry been a lot going on recently. Been a bit down on the dressing - not feeling my 'beautiful' self ;-(. Only dressed yesterday for first time in over 6 weeks! And then only clothes.

Need to get my confidence back up. Speak soon.

Katie x

Katie, we need to get you out.

You're over-thinking things. Getting you out would show you that much of this discussion is purely acedemic. People are mostly indifferent, but many overwhelmingly nice and appreciative of how we look.

Is there any further movement on getting you to Marine View?

I think we often worry too much about being judged poorly for crossdressing. Its largely an irrational fear, more in our own minds over how historically its been the butt of jokes. But we no longer live in the 1970s.

What you're really discussing above is lad culture; guys engaged in banter and taking the piss out of one another, for the tiniest of reasons. Its not necessarily reflecting their views on women or transfolk. It could just as easily be because a guy does the washing up for his wife (but they all do it). Its not real sentiment, its a game of ranking one another, but nonetheless just a (mindless, immature) game of masculinity.

I've had straight guys, not on the pull, come up to me and say how much they respect and admire me for having the courage to dress in public. This is far from ridicule.

Just thought I'd add this from an article I read:

Females as well as males have been involved in cross-dressing, but there is often a different judgment laid upon them. Women who have passed as soldiers have often been praised and applauded, though not uniformly (as for example in the case of Jeanne d'Arc). The Western patriarchal subordination of women means, on one hand, that it makes sense for a woman wanting freedom from oppression to try to pass as a man; but, on the other hand, she may well be attacked for trying to rise above her “rightful” place. Men, on the other hand, have no such justification, since by cross-dressing in a patriarchal society they are placing themselves lower on the power ladder, a move that is specifically against the very idea of masculinity and hence traitorous.

Full article https://read.dukeupress.edu/tsq/article/1/1-2/65/92027/Cross-Dresser

I'm sure that there are many women who post on dating sites that are constantly propositioned by men. There are sites specifically for that reason and although TVChix can be used for the chatrooms it is also used to arrange meetings so not surprising it is used for sex.

There are 'admirers' out there who want to date and have sex with trans women. But I get the impression that this is normally a 'discreet' exercise as they would not want to get caught with a t girl. Many appear to be married.

Because the footballer was made up as a woman there may have been an element of 'banter' in his team-mates reaction, however, I think that there are men who would hope to get away using their power and position to take advantage of women. 'Me too' springs to mind. I also chatted with another t girl who said complete strangers think it's OK to grope her because she is a man! It's not. It is still invading a personal space. I once went to party in fancy dress as a Dynasty character. I had my arse pinched a few times by men, even though they knew I was a man. Why? They wouldn't have done it if I was in jeans and a t shirt. I think it was because I was in a dress and, therefore, 'fair game'.

I wonder if the wives here think it's funny to see a man in a dress.

I do think men make other men wear dresses to humiliate them. Call it a warped sense of humour but they want to embarrass and make the victim feel uncomfortable. If the victim said 'cool, I love wearing dresses' the fun may stop but what would it be replaced by? Violence as shown in BBC article.

What would the footballers mates have done if he'd admitted he was a crossdresser. How would their reaction have changed? Same as the trans talk thread?

Have a read of this article https://www.care2.com/causes/iranians-protest-punishment-of-making-man-dress-as-woman.html and let me know what you think.

So when I see men being made to wear a dress for 'entertainment' I find it a bit offensive, not only to me but women. Yes they're all 'old school blokes' and I hope that things are changing but seeing it on TV doesn't help.

Katie x

I get messages all the time on tvchix fro m men based on my profile photo ignoring the no men sign on my profile.or the im married and straight bit ask if I'd meet for sex.. I doubt women get that? At least is hope not but men who.are into t girls assume we dress so.we.want sex with them so There s a few ways to.look at this outside the scene men think it demeaning to Cross dress and inside admirers just want to have sex with us.

I very much doubt the footballers team mates would abuse a woman like they did their crossdressed team mate but groups of men talking about women can be pretty demeaning and not something iv e ever joined in with the look at the tit s on her bet she's a goer is shag her type of language a group of men can get intimate I'm sure some women likewise about men make strip per s comes to mind if never go to a strip show and cannot stand seeing women demean themselves watching male strippers

Fowler In a dress for some jokes about how he's Robert a on the weekend et c it's just a laugh a padding thing they don't consider it to be wrong making fun of t rans in this way and can't blame them and would expect them to be different if Fowler said actually im.a.crossdresser

I don't think men link a man demeaning himself.dressed as a woman with a woman being beneath them it's more the pansy aspect.

Attitudes are changing and I think situations need to be taken into consideration or the footballers wouldn't treat a woman like they treated their mate.. Blokes in work would be different if they or their sons were crossdressers..

It's the i don't do it and my wife or husband doesn t do. it so doesn't affect us think