By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Holiday outing...

It's strange isn't it.

Not everyone develops this crossdressing urge prior to a relationship and the argument of you should have told your gf before you married her you were a crossdresser is valid but what if like myself and Katie the urge left us during dating, engagement and early marriage then came back.

It would have been a lie but the thing maybe I should have done was tell my wife when she dressed me up when I realised it was her having a bit of fun "Let's see if my macho hubby will let me dress him as a woman" I should have lied said I liked it it turned me on and id like to do it again and progressed from there.

Only my wife can answer this but what if id told that lie and made out she started me on the crossdressing road not telling her id dressed previously.

To some it has become part of a coping mechanism and inexplicable one. It's dressing up and the fun of trying to look convincing and maybe in part act convincing which I haven't mastered at all but I walk ok tho wife says to stick my toys out more lol.. But its a cure for stress.. A temporary one anyway.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Holiday outing...

That is such a familiar story and probably resonates with lots of crossdressers.

I dressed when I had the opportunity through my early teens but it stopped through my late teens and early 20s. I married in my late 20s and didn't start dressing again until I had a really stressful period around the age of 35.

One day I just found myself in M&S buying lingerie, a skirts and top. I don't really know to this day how it happened but since then I've continued on a regular basis for all the reasons that Davina gives.

i think that many men feel that the crossdressing was maybe just a stage they went through, which to a degree it was but the mistake is believing that it had gone away forever. I know now that that was not the case. I never meant to deceive my wife it's just that things change.

The urge may disappear again, who knows, but at the moment crossdressing does give me an escape that I need in my life.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Holiday outing...

I can only speak for myself regarding when and why I told my wife I was a Crossdresser.

Before we met as a kid and teenager I would occasionally cross dress if home alone and if I had the time and urge. This I think was part an attraction to women and women's lingerie and a substitute as a teenager dressing myself as how was I going to have a woman in stockings and heels etc at the time how would it feel oh ill try it on myself and wow what a feeling.

I met my GF who became my wife and crossdressing left me for a few years, we got engaged and moved in together and all of a sudden I was living with her and wardrobe and draws full of her clothes I was eager to know what clothes she had and if she had any sexy Lingerie.. I'd bought her some also.

It wasn't until my wife dropped a bombshell on me which sent me spiralling into stress that my crossdressing really kicked off again followed by her out of the blue asking to dress me as a woman for a laugh which proliferated the crossdressing urge introducing makeup then getting promotions adding to stress crossdressing became a bit of a Coping escapism.

So it was 2 years into marriage I told her I was a crossdresser after her dressing me up and prior to that crossdressing more or less stopped.

As years have gone on and more responsibility and stress and reorgs in work have occurred crossdresing really has been my mode of escape and a calming part of my life albeit for a short few hours but the effect longer lasting.

A 2nd bombshell was dropped a year ago around a time when I was flat out in work and couldn't cross dress and had to sort a problem out which really pushed the stress button and continues to worry me greatly today hoping the problem is dealt with and will not happen again but i still worry about it daily or weekly and think ahead about it which doesn't help my stress levels alongside work issues and when I cant crossdress although I won't admit it ive pushed through to a point where even crossdressing doesn't help and I've felt really ill because of it.

There are things more deadly than crossdressing and stress is very real as is depression which I've also battled through though no one would know it.

My plan for 2017 is to work less hours, lose weight and get fit, stick.to crossdressing once a month as I enjoy it and it helps me relax and unwind and ensure the problem that arose does not happen again and also that we spend more time and energy as a family unit.

So sometimes its not always easy to tell someone you cross dress before marriage.

Sometimes it is brought back on by events and some times it happens for the first time after marriage as lots of tgirls have developed this urge after marriage later in life some in their 40s or later.

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Holiday outing...

Admittedly I've only witnessed this 'outing' issue through a couple of wives on a support forum I frequented a few years back. It was a disaster all around as one man was caught in a very inappropriate outfit by his teenage son and another just decided one day he didn't care anymore and walked out the door dressed. The second one is clearly not accidental and funnily enough, that's the marriage that imploded. Last we were told, he was living in his mother's basement too poor to bother wearing the very clothing that destroyed his life! Sad. The other couple ended up in intensive therapy and the husband was finally shocked into seeing his behavior clearly. After that, he only dressed with his wife and not as a replacement and the kids were not involved again. Worked out well for him.

Not sure though what the usual outcome would be. Remember, I have my own reasons for not being able to live someone else's lifestyle. it's too exhausting to do again and I want to live my own life now, if that makes sense. I can deal with the private dressing and I understand it's part of what makes my husband tick, but public knowledge would change all that and even if the kids are fine and people eventually shrug and just think he's a bit eccentric, I'd still resent being pushed into that corner. I'd have expected a choice before marriage and not during.

And sure, I've changed. We all do. Women do often dress more casual and want less sex. But I haven't key parts of my personality like crossdressing. I'd liken that more to a wife hiding bipolar disorder or something. That's going to directly affect how the family functions and if she broadcasts her issues to the world, he also carries around her behavior. I know a couple of men who left their wives over this exact issue. Very sad, but they did so for their own sanity as her life was defining theirs.

Thing is, some people will stay while others won't. I don't think either decision is wrong. It is what it is. But it could be avoided if all was revealed at the very start.

All this is just speculation though...a bit of banter before the new year! :)

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Holiday outing...

I understand if there are other issues which make anyone more inflexible at being defined by someone else's lifestyle. I also get how it might affect how other people who know a husband is a crossdresser behave around a wife as a result of a HUSBANDS choices be it Crossdressing or their outed fetish or off the norm behaviour.

I also applaud any woman who can support her husband if her husband does become a public crossdresser but I’m typing more the outed discovered Crossdresser not necessarily a husband crossdressing publicly but more people knowing he crossdresses.

I take pride in how I look as a bloke designer stubble et all and I take pride in how I look when I crossdress but that’s for my own enjoyment not anyone else’s. So if anyone discovered a photo of Davina a) They may not think it’s me b) if they do think it’s me at least they will say I look good.

Agreed in a crossdressing relationship only the husband enjoys the lifestyle, yet if he decides to go public, the wife must also live it. And the kids. And Grandma.etc etc....

Without discussion to out oneself it would be unfair but sometimes being outed can be accidental then its damage limitation making sure whoever found out is put in the picture correctly not allowing assumption .. eg if say my mum in law found out I crossdressed I’d want her to know why I crossdress and get her to hopefully understand it and explain that my wife doesn’t want everyone to know, then if she told others well we’d have to deal with that.

I also get that Sindy cant be bothered pretending to accommodate things that don't interest her but men have to accommodate things that weren’t apparent when we married also and we get on with it like less of a sex life and less of wives making an effort to look how we like them to look like they looked when they first attracted us and sometimes later in life men will take to crossdressing to make up for this.

Crossdressers and straight women - who gets to be authentic? - Both do, you get a straight normal husband and wife life and a life occasionally very occasionally when your husband crossdresses as it’s not like its an every day thing or in public openly. How would he be if he didn’t crossdress? What if this meant he was stressed out and miserable in the husband – wife life? What if the crossdressing makes the husband – wife life better somehow.

Katie is right as the pressure of hiding yourself away as a crossdresser can be stressful and wanting to tell someone can be as stressful being scared of losing someone. This is also very frustrating where we feel crossdressing is well just crossdressing and nothing much deeper than that for most.

The alternative (being outed) is also stressful it does bring with it a certain release of all those pent up emotions but I suppose its how one is outed… Out yourself or outed by someone who finds out about the crossdressing... and if its malicious or not.

We have to get our own heads around why we crossdress to the greatest extent possible before sharing that we do it and I guess outing oneself is something a couple should discuss but back to the accidental outing it needs to be controlled.

Talking authenticity the authentic me is me the man the Alpha male thats me Davina is pure escapism and not the full on me but a part of me maybe an essential part.

I don’t think me being outed as a crossdresser would affect anything it wouldn’t affect work other than sniggering and if my wife wanted to leave because people found out I crossdressed I’d struggle to get my head around her reasoning and would expect her reaction and mine to be more “So what”

Sindy has said before that the fact that a husband is a crossdresser should not or would not reflect badly on them as wives.

It would be great to get a real perspective on this from a tgirl who has outed herself or been outed by someone else.

If it meant the kids would know then all card and explanations would have to be on the table to the kids yes Daddy dresses up as a woman its just a bit of fun and helps him relax etc etc offering them assurance.. if then their friends knew and friends parents etc it would be difficult especially if the kids got teased or bullied about their “tranny dad” but I think I would know how to cope and deal with that should that ever occur.

Back to authentic lives remember we’re talking crossdressing here not a transvestite full time dressing like a woman life choice as most in here are authentically men with crossdressing a mere escapism.

The urge can come and go from days to weeks to years as mines been strong as a teenager, less in my 20s then picked up in late 20’s into my 40’s (just).. But once a month will suffice.

Again with the internet which I didn’t have as a kid either Katie its now a lot easier to find out about crossdressing but I never looked up anything about it until mid 20s and wanting to connect with others to discuss the why do we dress.

Kids are more aware of sexuality my daughters 10 and recently commented on a homophobic comment from me about girls having girlfriends and boys boyfriends stating matter of factly its ok which shes learnt from youtube vloggers apparently.

Its an awkward one as I’ve said we need someone who’s been outed to comment here for real perspective.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Holiday outing...

The kids thing is always a worry but even the kids from 'normal' families will get bullied. It's normally the kid themselves (nothing to do with parents) who is bullied because they don't fit the norm! You have you have the right shoes, clothes, haircut etc to fit in. Even working hard at school can set you up as being a 'geek' which just isn't cool. My wife's brother was bullied but she wasn't because she could fit in and he couldn't!

It's a lot easier for guys now with all the information available. When I grew up in the 70s there was no internet and the only reference point I had was the dictionary definition of transvestite so I never knew where everything would end up. Crossdressing urges can also disappear - was it a stage I was going through? Only to reappear later in life which does seem a pattern. I'm not trying to make an excuse but I just didn't know what would happen in the future. Maybe now I'm more aware and thing would have been handled differently but there is nothing I can do about it now.

As I've said before transgender issues are now discussed at school and kids are more aware. I'm always amazed how mature and thoughtful some kids can be when faced with racial, sexual and gender issues. It just seems to be taken for granted that people can be different without causing prejudice.

It does seem to be older generation who struggle with these issues and yearn back to the 1950s when life was so much simpler!

I sometimes wonder if the kids wouldn't be harmed more if the parent broke up than stayed together. They'd still have a crossdressing Dad but he'd be ostracised instead of being part of a loving family. The kids probably wouldn't careless what Dad did in his spare time which does seem to be the general consensus amongst those who have told their children. Especially the younger children, adult children have already had time to form their prejudices' so may react differently.

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Holiday outing...

I do agree that I'd likely only get sympathy and support from people if they knew. They'd definitely think I was strong for living with a man with such weird proclivities, lol. I'd feel very sorry for our kids though and that alone would cause enough resentment to end the relationship. Kids are cruel! Remember, we're talking hypothetically here about a private crossdresser who has 'accidentally' outed himself without discussing it first. I might understand the reasons but he's still a selfish git for doing it.

Sigh.

The only hope for men who crossdress is to find their authentic lives before finding partners. After many chats with other wives, this is the only solution to this problem. It's not about hoping wives won't leave or navigating deal breakers or fearing discovery or what the kids will think. It's about not having wives and kids in the first place, until AFTER you are living your authentic life. Only then will these conversations stop. Sadly this is all too late for many of us here. But not too late for the young guy who thinks about purging this side of himself in order to find a partner. Don't purge! Be yourself. Figure out this crossdressing thing before you do anything else. Then find a partner who loves you as you are. All of you! These partners are more likely to stand by you if you're 'outed' because you were authentic from the start. Problem solved.

The rest of us just have to carry on as best we can, and hope that our personal deal-breaker is never met. :-(

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Holiday outing...

I think that the pressure of hiding yourself away can be stressful and although the alternative (being outed) is also stressful it does bring with it a certain release of all those pent up emotions. We are always being told about being genuine to yourself and if you're a crossdresser who hides this away then you are never really being true to yourself.

But many of us do hide this away for a variety of reasons. Sindy's husband knows why he must hide it away and there are a variety of other reason to do with family and social status. I read in the obituary for George Michael that he hide the fact that he was gay into his mid-20s. Firstly he said he wasn't 100% sure, secondly it was the time of AIDS and he was scared that his mother would continually worry about him catching the 'gay plague' and thirdly it was also a time of high homophobia and to admit he was gay could have destroyed his career.

To a degree crossdressers probably have the same feeling but for different reason. Firstly we have to understand what being a crossdressers means to us, there maybe initial denial but once you come to terms with the fact then it is easer to move on. Secondly there is at the fear about what it will do to your family and friends. I'm sure that if I'd have come out as a crossdresser to my mother she would have worried every time I went out in case I was beaten up or killed. Thirdly, and Sindy is correct here, we would always be labelled as the crossdresser and what social and economic effect that might have is unknown.

So you always have this internal battle going on about being the authentic you v effects of stepping out as a woman. Occasionally being the authentic you wins and once that genie is out the bottle there is no going back!

It's not a self destruct button in the sense that we know for definite what the consequence will be it's just that we can't keep living within the same confines. Probably a bit like Brexit - more of the same or a leap into the dark (it may work out OK or it might be a complete disaster).

Whether it was a deal breaker for my wife or not may depend upon the path I was taking. If I wanted to live full time as a woman then I think she'd probably struggle (me too) but if it was just occasionally and only on certain occasions then I think she could cope.

I think it is also down to the attitude of the wife or partner. From following other crossdressers transitions I've seen wives stand by their man until the very end. At some point it does become too much and I think that is the full time position when they fully identify as a woman. Until then I think that love can conquer all.

I also think that sometimes wives and partners feel that the fact that their husband is a crossdresser also reflect badly on them. My experience in this is limited but I think that feeling of others is that of sympathy and not ridicule. I'm sure that they would get only support from friends and family.

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Holiday outing...

It's entirely personal but my difficult childhood (I won't go into details here)has made me utterly inflexible at being defined by someone else's lifestyle. It's not that I care what others think necessarily. It's that it WILL affect how they behave around me as a result of my HUSBANDS choices. This is fine if you also enjoy the same lifestyle. But crossdressing isn't something I'm interested in, and from past experience, I've learned I really don't want to carry around the baggage of others any more. Not even my spouse. It's really that simple.

I, however, applaud any woman who can support her husband if he does become a public crossdresser. That's a very brave, strong woman to allow someone else to define how they are seen. We all like to think we don't care what others think, but you wouldn't crossdress with all the wigs and shaving and whatever if you didn't care, and you know this. Your designer stubble is because you care how people see you.

Thing is, in a gay relationship, both people are gay. They both relate to the lifestyle. They both carry the baggage. In a crossdressing relationship only the husband enjoys the lifestyle, yet if he decides to go public, the wife must also live it. And the kids. And Grandma....yet, it's not theirs. Seems unfair, and sure, this also happens in a family with other things like illness and whatever. But those are not a lifestyle...they're something that happens along the way. Crossdressing is within most men before they get married so I feel it's unfair to expect a woman to wear that label if she never wanted it in the first place. Preaching here...lol

But that's just me. I love my husband. We're in a good place. But I will always put my mental health over crossdressing. He knows this and has known this from the moment I found out. His choice is to stay married anyway. He's big and ugly enough to make this decision.

That said, this isn't so much a reflection on crossdressing as being forced to live a lifestyle I don't want. I'd be equally ready to leave if he outed himself as a Furry! I just find Furries less unappealing, that's all, lol. But I'm also a mom and cute takes prioroty these days!! I guess they remind me of my kids and dog. :-D. But I'd rather my husband didn't do any of it!!

But this is just me. I am not a twenty-something, playful thing anymore. I can't be bothered pretending to accomodate things that don't interest me. I won't wear labels that aren't mine. I fully support authenticity in a person and think it's essential. But I would be the fraud if I lived with a public crossdresser as every minute of my married life would be filled with misery and resentment. You can't have a happy relationship if only one person is living the authentic life.

And maybe that's the conundrum? Crossdressers and straight women - who gets to be authentic?

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Holiday outing...

Why is being seen and discovered such a common need for men who crossdress?

I suppose we surmise that if everyone knows we crossdress then everyone knows and no need to keep the secret or hide crossdressing in an ideal world.

But its not an ideal world so unless we're then going to sit everyone down and explain the why we do it and the positive effects it has then whats the point is a good question and yes you'd be labelled the crossdresser and probably made fun of..

I'd like to think if I was outed my wife wouldn't pack up and leave just because people knew I dressed as a woman.

It doesn't change me just changes how people may think about me or think of me but I'm still me so I really don't care what people think of me just because I occasionally dress and present as a woman makeup and all.

So why do they take this risk?

The hope for acceptance and understanding I suppose.

Sad to hear it would be a deal breaker for you Sindy why do you care what other people may think or say because your husband crossdresses if people found out? Surely that's not cause for separation?

Crossdressing is harmless, if controlled or out its just crossdressing nothing more.

Furries I don't get at all but strange you'd rather your husband be a Furry than dress as a Woman.