Anyone breaking social norms can often create a reaction from those who follow them or don't!
I think it goes back to Sindy's 'uncanny valley' although the term was used to describe the relationship an objects resemblance to a human being and the emotional response we have to the object. This is primarily to do with how close the resemblance that a robot has to a human. There is point where the resemblance provokes uncanny or strangely familiar feelings of eeriness and revulsion in observers. This is the valley. Either side we are happy to accept. To far from human is fine and really close to human is fine. It's just the gap in between that causes those feelings.
I think those sort of feelings can be created by people who don't follow the social norm. Sindy's example was crossdressers. Some where feminine enough (passable as an ordinary woman) for people to feel comfortable enough in their presences. Others are far enough away to be non-threatening. If you like a joke. But the gap in between causes this feeling of revulsion and shock.
I was picking up some tools from Screwfix the other day and the woman serving had really hairy arms. Far more hairy than any other woman I had seen. My immediate response was a double take. It is so out of the normal that it caused a shock. Then I thought about it. She is only portraying her natural state. I guess her legs. under arm etc all followed the same pattern. But it was still shocking because it was against the social norm.
It made me wonder about how many women on this forum would feel comfortable going 'au naturel'. Is it wanting to feel part of the social norm that stops you or do you not care what other people think because you know it will create shock!
I will see some of the response before I come on to my next point 😀
Katie x
I kept my mouth shut and drank my beer just thinking hmmm they seem to know a bit too much and doth protest too much about these men who dress as women and I wondered like me after this pint and meal would they too be returning to their rooms to cross dress. I have a bit of a don't mess with me reputation in work.. No one expects the Spanish Enquisition... And no one expects me to be a leggy blonde with long legs. Lol Davina
Yes I’ve been in that situation. My main problem is blushing. I know it sounds ludicrous but if the subject comes up, in an instant I go as red as a beetroot and get hugely uncomfortable. I can’t help it. On one occasion this was noticed by a colleague and various rumours started up. I’m embarrassed to say I go to great lengths to avoid any conversations where the subject will arise. It’s dumb I know. Anyway.
I do have a tv detector apparatus though. Have you noticed how with some guys you somehow just know? Something in the demeanour or manner. And it often occurs to both parties at the same time - it just dawns on you both. And then of course vow never to mention it.
Yep with you on that! I’ve never been out en femme but hey lockdown could be my chance - the streets are deserted! Meet you outside Maddam Tussaud’s and you can be my support bubble...
I'm not scared of mine I wear the trousers here tho 2020 despite only dressing 8 times think I wore a dress more than her lol.. She's doing well in 2021 4 times she's worn a dress so far not that I'm keeping score lol.
Katie, in the case of your uncanny valley reference - you mean then if a bloke in a dress goes out in public and is feminine enough, even if he’s obviously a bloke in a dress, to blend in to some degree, we’ll feel more or less relaxed...but if he’s got horrendous or pastiche clothes on, or grotesque make up, and a beard, that’s when we hit the panic button? This would make sense. Eddie Izzard does a great routine on this, recounting how he goes into a shop to buy some crisps and everyone starts yelling bloke in a dress! bloke in a dress!! what do you want??! Can I have some crisps please. What, you eat crisps?? Erm anyway you had to be there I guess...
Vikki often tells me my legs feel like sandpaper and that is when I have had them waxed. There is no pleasing some people!
Liz you made me chuckle about being scared of the wife x
Davina - I often sneak on a pair of 20 d’s under my running leggings when it’s cold...I’ll shut up now 😳...
Looking back I can’t believe I left it until my mid twenties to shave my legs, but it honestly never occurred to me. That first time was painful as neither did it occur to me to use shaving foam, I just hacked, scraped and chiselled away. Then stood back to admire my pins which looked like something out of Chernobyl and felt as if I’d gone for a walk in a wasp nest. But I got the hang of it and ever since have been on and off smooth. If I had to say why exactly I’d say being hairless broadly appeals to me because : I associate it with femininity, it helps me keep my suppressed streak of non- masculine self bubbling away, it’s an intrinsic part, rightly or wrongly, of dressing as a woman It feels lovely I can feel the clothes I’m wearing Dense hair under 10 denier hosiery is not a good look It does feel cleaner and fresher It’s an instinctive thing, not something I can successfully rationalise and that to me sums up the whole wanting to dress thing. If a woman prefers not to defuzz then I notice, I ponder it, but it’s entirely her thing (um, ok, if it was someone close then I don’t suppose I’d like it too much, but I wouldn’t attempt to dissuade her. Mainly cos my wife scares the bejesus out of me...).
Gosh how many euphemisms can we come up with? 🤣 I’m going out for a run now in my running tights - got my trainers on and Rory is safely packed away so I’m ready to go. Will think about all this on my way! First thing that comes to my mind is, to anyone reproachful of a man with smooth skin - have you ever tried putting sun cream on your legs through an inch of thick wavy blonde hair?
Agreed Hannah get rid of the hair apart from on the head
Just shave and wax its not a good look on women and im sure t girls wouldnt be hairy tgirls eughhh
It is interesting to hear the response from our female members. Up until the 1920s women didn't bother to shave at all. Think Victorian women being covered from neck to foot. In the 1920s short sleeve dresses became fashionable and so under arm hair become unfashionable. During the 1940 'nylons' became in short supply so women took to shaving their legs. As hemlines decreased so did the need to shave further up. Then with pornography become more common the need to shave or trim the 'fairy' became the fashion.
So over the last 100 years women have gone from hairy to non-hairy to follow fashion. And those not following the fashion have become the odd ones out.
Who decides what is fashionable. If hairy women become the norm would you still be smooth?
Katie x
Not heard it called a Fairy before one friend made me laugh called it her flower and I remember my mam calling it a Mary 🤣 this could be a new thread what do you call your private parts 😂. #DontletyourMarygettooHairy
https://www.vogue.com/article/body-hair-new-generation-not-shaving
Eww i think its lazy if a woman becomes hairy
We need to assure we don't have a tache I'm always smooth even arms tache wax legs waxed and look after my fairy lol that what i call it but made me laugh reading Bush too didn't expect Karen to call it a bush hehe
Emma (Wife) always smooth never hairy
Karen 😂 Bush never expected that from you made me laugh for real.. There's one wife's answer Katie. I hate hair on my body as a man let alone if I was awoman I'd be smooth no bush lol
Think I will give the au natural look a miss thanks. Not sure the beard, hairy tree trunks, hairy pits and a bush is a good look. I would definitely not feel comfortable with all that hair.