Lights on or off I don't mind

Sabina have you heard off Windy who started this thread I hope she's ok?

Yeah thats a good compromise I guess, better with the lights on though lol

Of Esme offered "Davina" jiggy jiggy with the lights out of take it is know I'm dressed feel the lingerie on me etc

Haha, it would take all the fun out of it! Catriona needs to be seen!! 🙂

Is switch the light off lol no problem.

If I've gone to all the trouble of looking as much like a woman as possible, (and I think I do a reasonably good job!) And I was in the bedroom with a woman ready to get jiggy and she suddenly turned round and said I'm sorry I can't do it with the light on, we'll have to switch it off! I'd be very miffed at that and that's being polite lol

I can find men attractive as t girls I find it quite kinky and find a crossdressed man can be very appreciative of a supporting woman.

Those who won't try this or see a perversion are socially brain washed into what's right and wro ng.

So what if he's dressed as a woman turn out the light!

Hannah (wife)

Interesting answer Sindy. I guess that it shows that femininity and masculinity are the main drivers in attraction and not necessarily somebody's sex until it get serious! This would explain your feelings towards your husband when he is presenting as a woman.

It also shows that your attraction can change dependent upon how somebody is presenting. I assume Ruby Rose is not attractive to you as a women but is as a man.

I think that the majority of crossdressers can understand this attraction. After all we are highly attracted to feminininty. I think we also understand why our wives and partners may not find us attractive when we are presenting as woman. I am not attracted to 'butch' women so shoudl expect anything different in return.

I don't think the majority of crossdressers expect a 'lesbian' relationship when dressed. It is a fantasy and in a lot of cases that's as far as it will ever go. It's a shame that you cannot get your early experience of your husband presenting as a woman out of your mind. It is always a risk that any crossdresser runs when he presents himself as a woman to his wife.

If you look to good as a woman then it becomes a bit 'lesbian' if you look to bad then it becomes more of a joke. I think that Davina looking to realistic as an 'everyday' woman jolted Esme. It's always a risk.

I watched the vidoe I posted from Juliette. I think that she has a really good handle on teh whole situation. It's still tough and I think we'll always want more but it's a matter of getting the balance right.

Katie

Good question, and truth is I'd find Ruby Rose in male gear more attractive than a crossdressed man. I'm into masculinity. I wouldn't have a sexual relationship with a masculine woman as I'm straight, but I'm more turned on by this innate masculinity than I'll ever be with my husband and his frocks. We are incompatible in that way.

Hi Sindy

I get how you wouldn't find a man presenting as a woman attractive. I wouldn't find a woman presenting as a man attractive. Which begs the question - Would you find a woman presenting as a masculine man attractive? When Ruby Rose transformed into her masculine self did you find her attractive?

Does that make you a lesbian if you did?

As a crossdresser I find femininity attractive. That's why I dress they way I do. I can find a t girl attractive but as Juliette says in her video the fact that underneath it all she is a man makes any relationship impossible.

Katie

Another cracking video from Juliette which I think answers quite a few of your questions Sindy.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiOcRILR_oC2m9eJhaKNLOQ/videos

Katie, this sure explains a lot about my ex boyfriends from a lifetime ago lol. Other than the bisexual guy, the rest did seem a little oblivious as to what makes a man attractive to women, or at least they didn't seem to even acknowledge men WERE attractive.

Women can see that another woman is sexy etc, but it has zero relation to what we're attracted to, if that makes sense.

And I think women don't ponder what 'plumbing' someone has (ask women on dating sites how they feel about all the 'dick pics' they receive! lol) until getting busy I guess, lol. It's not really the point. It's the whole package and if that package is a man wrapped in female shaped paper, she's not going to find him attractive. Doesn't matter what's underneath. Love and a desire to accommodate a partner can have her override her natural instinct - but the plumbing is not an initial decider for most. Is it for men? Can men look past a male presenting woman because he knows she has the right parts underneath?

And the lesbian thing is not like I literally feel like a lesbian when with a crossdresser - it's that I feel HE is trying to create a lesbian scenario, and a big part of me just thinks 'if I wanted a lesbian sexual experience, I'd go be with an actual female.' I want sex with a man to be with a man. I'm not really big on fantasy based sex. But my libido is also probably WAY lower than 99% of the men walking this earth so I'm sure that has something to do with all this.

Hi Sindy

I think that you are confusing the situation.

1) Most men (including crossdressers) cannot understand why a women would not find other women attractive. We also struggle to understand what you find attractive about men! We maybe bears of small brains but we fancy women ergo you must fancy women. Not a lot of thought but that's how we work sometimes.

2) Most men cannot understand why a lesbian woman would want to date another 'butch' lesbian woman. Why not date a man?

3) I don't think a lesbian woman would fancy a crossdresser because they presented as female . They are still a man which does not interest as lesbian woman.

4) Wives think that they have to be lesbians to date a crossdresser. But he is still a man so why?

5) A crossdressers fantasy about lesbian sex is just a fantasy. We know it's not real we still have all the male plumbing and so underneath are always male.

This maybe a simplistic view but we are by nature quite simple animals and we try to make things confusing when really they shouldn't be.

If there were no labels such as gay, straight, heterosexual, bi sexual, lesbian etc then we wouldn't get so hung up on it. We'd just fancy who we fancied and that would be it.

I just watched a documentary on Winston Churchill's secret lover. She had many affairs with men and later in life with a woman. Good for her if that's what made her happy. It doesn't make her a bad person she just went with her heart.

Katie

Juliette, I think it's great you know it's unrealistic. Truly, I can't count the number of wives from my past chats that complained about their husbands EXPECTING them to find their crossdressing sexy. My own husband, in the early days, seemed pretty damn oblivious as to why I wouldnt be into it. I remember thinking that someone really needs to do a bit more sex-ed with boys and explain what 'heterosexual female' actually means, lol.

I guess some boys/men are not very aware of others preferences until they encounter them? Still, it's fascinating to me as to why so many crossdressers get this so wrong. Enough that Grayson Perry himself looked perplexed when one mentioned the 'girl and girl' action he wanted. But Grayson is very self aware so I assume he innately understands why his crossdressing is a turn off for most women, versus the others who clearly don't.

Oh well...those wives usually made the rules known very quickly - quite often as they kicked him and his belongings out the door! At least the Davina Type knows how it is. :-)

I don't expect my wife to be attracted to me when I'm dressed, she's pretty straight so that would make no sense. It would be nice though, unrealistic but nice.

Because we're bought up to believe that they want to. As a straight man I can easily understand what a woman would find attractive about another woman and cannot see what women find attractive about a man! You have the opposite point of vie - Exactly another society led thing

I dont fancy men cant see whats attractive about men but women mmm i like women

I can see why a woman wouldnt want two men poking at her lol but another women for one it looks hot lol a mans biggest fantasy more than one woman in bed getting upto all sorts of things..

It sounds like maybe a large reason to crossdressing for some men is this lesbian fantasy, yes?

NO maybe somthing we think of at some point but not a driver for Crossdressing

Is that at the heart of this? As Katie points out, most heterosexual men have this 'lipstick lesbian' fantasy and imagine getting it on with two hot women. Is crossdressing a step further into this fantasy where you get to BE one of these lesbians? Men do like to take things to the extreme!

Maybe something we think of after a while not a driver for dressing tho..

Tying up Esme and spanking her hmmm she's said she's not into spanking.. dosn't do anything for me either but Tying her up teasing and all that maybe.. or her tying me (or Davina) up,.. as long as she doesnt leave me tied up and sit down and watch trash tv.

Hi Sindy

For the majority of crossdressers the 'lipstick' lesbian fantasy is an adult one. When I started crossdressing I had no idea lesbians even existed let alone having fantasies about them. Maybe it is a motivation for some late onset crossdressers to start but not us "Davina' types.

Why do men think women want to try a lesbian relationship?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2051284/More-half-women-bi-curious-attracted-women.html

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/sex/a10232713/bicurious-experimenting/

Because we're bought up to believe that they want to. As a straight man I can easily understand what a woman would find attractive about another woman and cannot see what women find attractive about a man! You have the opposite point of view.

We're just a big mix of sexual orientations and gender identity / expression. There are so many labels and ways of describing how people feel that it is really confusing. Best just to go with what makes you happy.

Katie

Interesting answers, and sort of clears up my confusion. My husband has always felt similarly excited about sex while dressed, and definitely has quite a rigid 'type' in mind when it comes to attraction etc. A bit like you, Davina, he is into the very feminine look but also likes personality etc. Kind of ironic that he's so rigid and yet expects me to be so flexible!

BUT, and I don't know if this is true or not, it sounds like maybe a large reason to crossdressing for some men is this lesbian fantasy, yes? Is that at the heart of this? As Katie points out, most heterosexual men have this 'lipstick lesbian' fantasy and imagine getting it on with two hot women. Is crossdressing a step further into this fantasy where you get to BE one of these lesbians? Men do like to take things to the extreme!

It's kind of interesting though, that women don't really have an equivalent. I've literally never had a straight female friend tell me they wanted sex with two men. I don't think I've ever heard one say they fantasised about two men having sex either. Though, I do remember watching gay porn in my teens while drinking cheap sparkling wine haha. Part of the thrill was going to the adult shop, giggling like idiots and renting this gay porn. We thought it was hilarious. Even funnier to watch, but never did anything for any of us...not that I know of anyway!

Ah, the memories, lol.

And I tried the crossdressing sex thing and yeah, not doing that again. Once done, it can't be undone so I'd suggest to any wife contemplating it that they be very sure. Sexual attraction can be fickle and you might think a few wines will take the edge off all those 'wrong' signals on your normally masculine partner (long hair, long nails, lipstick etc) but in the sober light of day when he wants to get 'busy' as a man again, you might find all that feminine imagery comes back and kills the 'lady boner'. Happened to me. Hasn't happened to Emma. I think Emma was more mentally prepared than I was. But I won't go there again as the damage has been done. So just be sure. The consequences of a bit of fun for him, can be death to a relationship.

So tread carefully and respectfully...that's all I would suggest. Otherwise, anything done in private is perfectly fine, even if you want to tie Esme to the bed and spank her with your heels, Davina. We've all seen Fifty Shades...lol.

Right now you're onto something as I am a Lesbian ocassional crossdresser.

I love women (I don't ewww no ewww a lil bit of spew dont love men couldnt touch one eww ) so that makes me a Lesbian or another name for it a straight man Yay! I love women and especially love women who make an effort to always look their best, dress a certain way have a good sense of humour and confidence.. Esme asked me what my type of woman was and I typed her a whats app as realy had to think about it and i sent her "Has to have a good sense of humour (and understand my sense of humour) good personality, kind, fashionable, nice legs, (stockings, tights, heels a must lol) , not fussy on hair colour, but like it long, nice boobs, make an effort to always look her best take pride in it with nice eyes and a nice smile"

Simple

Yep a big fantasy of mine is to make love to Esme as Davina .. I can't ask her to do this as she isn't a Lesbian.. Shes a straight woman and as I look like a woman on girls nights in she's not turned on by Davina .. but can a woman forego this for her husband and see how it feels? fulfil a fantasy? We know some of the ladies here have done and that we can classify their T-girl husbands as "Jammy Sods!" lol

Some of the ladies have said they enjoyed sex with their husband crossdressed .. I mean can you imagine how extra turned on we would be as we act out our little lesbian fantasy yes i said lesbian on a technicality in our heads but wives this doesn't make you lesbians i promise.

If myself and Esme ever do this and i'll keep my fingers corssed one day we may, I might ask her if we can do it but would prefer her to do it willingly.. and for her to make this happen without me asking.. (hint hint) ..we have smooched and hands have wandered after a few glasses of wine so you never know lol I live in hope.but she said it felt ok but weird.. my hair on her as we kissed etc.

However some will say that they can find other T-Girls attractive but these are men dressed as women you say but I can look at a T-girl and think wow she's stunning. I've chatted to men and T-girls about what is a new sexuality men and T girls who do more than say wow she looks stunning and to my mind as soon as they cross this boundary and get physical it becomes Bisexual activity but as Katie has said you get those looking for this but still say they're straight and some who seem to fall into situational bisexuality where the moment takes them. This needs a name..

So to Sindys point crossdressing men wanting to be fancied as women by women seems simple to me we're men wanting to be fancied by women even more so if we're dressed as women ocassionally acting out some lesbian fetish or fantasy.

Katies question would i care if my Esme was Bisexual no I wouldnt as long as if she met a woman sexually they didnt fall in love (Maybe a menage a trois .. i digress into another fantasy) .. the same as if she met another man nothing wrong with friendship and attraction and flirting as long as love doesnt come into the picture and she ran off with someone else. So no problem at all if Esme was Bisexual.

I would think however if I was to declare suddenly I fancy other t girls and I think I want to do things with / to them and that makes me Bisexual Esme would not be happy but would be the same if i went off with another woman as sexuality aside cheating is cheating but some will say sex is sex, sex is fun its just sex its just kissing etc if it means nothing ie no love just lust and sex I suppose it depends on your principals and vows and how serious you take the vows and what you think of cheating back to is cyber sex cheating? or does it have to be physical? is it physical if you're touching yourself? .. the questions on this can go on and on as people seem to be becoming more liberated sexually all over the world maybe down to the Internet.

If she was Bisexual maybe she'd fancy Davin LOL

Davina