As medical science advances the idea of choosing your sex may become even more of a reality. I noticed this story on the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43071901 and wonder how far we are from a womb transplant?
The video wasn't available this side of the pond. But reading your comments it does reinforce my theory of 'Davina' type crossdressers being created by circumstance.
Have you not been out lately and seen young women wearing next to nothing and high heels full makeup hair done trying to ensnare a mate ?
Then the next phase dating and moving in together her wearing sexy lingerie and enticing him with sex.. then the marriage proposal.. marriage kids and before he knows it shes in trousers flat shoes no makeup and hes thinking "what the hell happened? where did I go wrong? Who is she? Why arent we having sex any more?" He might ask her and she may say "I'm content ... You should love me as i am"
This unwritten change comes as a shock to the man suddenly glad hes not a praying mantis as shed have killed and eaten him by this stage...
Man looks in womans lingerie draws reminicing to a time When she'd wear lingerie instead of those cotton big knickers AND Man tries on the lingerie .. MAN Likes how they feel and how they make him feel man tries on more.... Man BEcomes a crossdresser.. woman finds out rejects this change and kills the man and eats him.. the end
Em, I do feel the same way about much of it to be honest. Katie's theory is a good one and I totally agree the lizard brain makes us have a baseline reaction to certain things...but I also think a lot of this gender stuff has been nurtured into people rather than nature had all the say.
I did find a video by Grayson Perry very interesting. Here's the link:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf7dCZrQ5sg
He's pretty certain that transvestism, and possibly even transexualism, is just a very male way of dealing with a problem. And that problem is the limits placed on men and personal expression etc. If you watch it you do get to hear another side, whether you agree or not. He makes the effort to compare motorcycle riders with crossdressers and I was actually a little shocked at the similiarites. One guy even says this great quote "being in control of a really powerful machine..'. I think you could say that about some crossdressers, to be honest, who see female image and form as sexy and powerful and crossdressing gives them full control of that. These men also find the outfits etc make them feel sexy, even though they admitted that most women hate the whole thing. Sound familiar? lol
Anyway, Grayson isn't convinced crossdressing will even be around in a few years as women don't dress up anymore so where would a boy even get the idea? And in the younger generation, groups like goth boys etc are entirely feminine without pretending to be women and without considering it crossdressing. I do wonder if you're a bit of an old, dying breed!
Anyway, since we're sharing ideas, it's another one to ponder.
I just think the way we're taught from a young age by parents then teachers then friends etc leads us to differ.
Left away from society norms how would a boy and girl progress as in man and woman without being shown and told what a man is and what woman is and how to behave and whats expected.
I'll try to answer your questions from my perspective. Obviously this is only a theory so any challenges are welcome.
The lizard brain is our basic survival instincts. People still react to dangers subconsciously even though logically there is no danger. If you had to think things through you'd probably be dead before the you worked through the various option. If you go to a zoo and see a snake through the glass. If the snake strikes out you'll automatically recoil even though you know there is glass between you and the snake and that it can't hurt you. Likewise your lizard brain controls how you act according to your sex. As I said previously men are wired to breed with as many partners as possible. We will be aggressive to achieve this aim and then fight to protect their offspring. Women are wired to seek suitable mates who can protect them and provide for their offspring. As you said before Sindy, your lizard brain recoils at femininity as you don't see that as good breeding material.
So fundamentally there is a difference in the expectation of both males and females in any animal. Obviously there are exceptions, male seahorses, for instance, care and carry the young in a pouch but these are behaviors developed as a result of evolution and it works for them. We have developed a way that works for us (human beings). The larger the brain the more care required to reach adulthood. Women are naturally the carers as they have the bond with their child. Modern society has adapted the model to include monogamy but that is not necessarily the natural state. Why do men and women have affairs? He wants to spread his genes far and wide and she may see a better opportunity. It happens in nature all the time, take the crossdressing squid who sneak in behind the dominant males back. The female squid will mate with the crossdressing squid as it give her greater diversity in her offspring, and therefore a greater chance of survival.
So lets say that your brain identifies with the female traits. You want to attract a male. You want to care and nurture. Your not aggressive. Do you identify as male or female? That is where the subconscious brain is telling you something that your conscious mind cannot accept. Gender dysphoria? Maybe. It's a theory and maybe a bit lose but it seems to fit and makes sense to me.
With regard to the 'Davina' types falling down the rabbit hole, well that's down to the compulsive nature of men. How many men do you know with a hobby who are content to ever stop. They always want the biggest, best, most whatever it is. How many men have ever completed their hobby? It doesn't just affect men, I've watched programmes with women addicted to plastic surgery. The more they have the more ridiculous they look and yet despite medical warnings they continue. There will always be people who will go to extremes. You make is sound as if there are herds of male crossdressers swarming around the women's wear in the departments stores. Yes you might see one or two out and about but as a percentage of the number of men who crossdress it's probably very small. Most of us can keep a cap on it. Yes we might fantasize about going out but very few venture passed the front door.
I don't think that being a 'Davina' type crossdresser will lead to transition. God I couldn't go through the whole process just to push my hobby to the max. If somebody wants to transition then they have gender dysphoria. As I said don't think that all crossdressers are the same, some are butter and some are margarine.
Myself and Katie and many many others have a handle on this or a lid where we can put our crossdressing back into a box until the urge returns.
Like ive said before sometimes you get the urge but cant dress and in terms of dressing being a spot of stress relief supressing this medicinal urge i feel can do some harm as im currently feeling a bit of stress more frustration in work as more and more work piles up or is added to my role and I've not crossdressed since about the 2nd week in January putting it off with opportunity working from home but work needing to be completed so Suppressing the urge to dress.
Where youre right is some tgirls will push the boundaries with crossdressing and as the one girl in a vid on here says dress more and more want to remain dressed wants to transition..
Thats not really who I'm aiming this forum at but all are welcome to share their experiances and angst.
So yes uncontrolled i see your point and weve all seen and read how men have crossdressed in secret for many years and after a 20 year marriage with kids declare they want to transition.
It can be controlled the urge can come and go but i cant explain why some transition at the end of it as i know i have no intention of doing that and at some point when i dont feel i can look the part i foresee i may stop.
I don't know how I feel about gender neutrality. I probably wouldn't care if that's all I'd ever known. But, let's face it, we will never have 100% neutrality as even if everyone dressed like Spock, women would still have the boobs and hips. (And some men who liked to cross the line! lol)
I guess I can sort of understand the lizard brain issue. I don't really get though, why it has such a profound effect on people. I would think our primitive biological needs are really quite faint these days. Seems many, many women can completely ignore and even entirely miss any desire to have children. Plenty of men can remain happily monogamous with less of a desire to spread their seed than an old lady lol.
So why on earth does it create such chaos in the lives of those where it's a bit mixed up? I would think for most with the wrong lizard brain signals, that a man might grow up with a stronger desire to have offspring, and perhaps a woman is a bit more promiscuous than her friends. But rearranging body parts, delving into the opposite isle in the clothing shops and telling everyone you're the opposite gender literally makes no sense to me. The lizard brain just isn't that powerful in the rest of us. So why is it so destructive in trans people?
Ah well, not really something I'll ever have to personally deal with. My lizard brain doesn't function at all anymore lol. Nothing works the older you get, so maybe trans people just need to wait it out and the urge will finally go.
I am curious though, about the Davina types, and why it starts so small and simple and can turn into a lifestyle. Not all, of course. You and Davina keep it well under control. But what about the men who were just ordinary little boys, not effeminate, who started crossdressing out of curiosity etc, and yes they keep seeking that next high, until one day they're telling everyone they ARE a woman and it's time for hormones. What on earth is going on there? To me, if they're the same as you and Davina, then that's crossdressing that becomes harmful. Body modification because you have an addictive compulsion is really quite appalling. And yet, that other forum shows it's really not uncommon. When I was on there for a few months, I literally watched some of the tame Davina types fall down the rabbit hole and upheave their entire lives to live as a woman.
It was especially telling that these men didn't want to just be plain ordinary women. They wanted to be BEAUTIFUL women (which was never gonna happen, oh dear) as though their fixation and fantasy about female presentation had turned them a wee bit insane.
I guess alcoholics can drink themselves to death. It makes sense a crossdresser could crossdress their entire lives away, losing everything in its wake. Sad, but I guess it's their choice not to get the right help instead of constant validation seeking, which is what those crossdressing forums are. I swear a man could pop on there and tell everyone he only liked to wear a bra and everyone would insist he was just hiding his true female self and he should immediately go dress as a woman and call himself Barbie.
I think Davina crossdressing can be quite dangerous in the wrong hands. Worse even than the lizard brain dressing, as at least there is some biological reality at its core.
I think that men and women should be treated with equal respect and their choices accepted. That means that if I want to express a feminine side which may be more extreme than the average woman then I should be entitled to do so without prejudice. I would not criticise a woman for dressing in the same way as I might or in fact in an ultra feminine way as is often seen on the red carpet. That is a choice that they make. Some women enjoy dressing up and that is their right. I don't dress the way I do as an insult to women. Everything I buy is high street fashion - it is how I like to see myself dressed. I do not force this on any other women. As a crossdresser I have an image of femininity that I want to achieve. It is not a statement on how women should dress. I find women attractive in clothes I would not want to wear and feel that they have every right to dress as they wish.
i think if everything was gender neutral then it would be pretty boring. There would be no scope for individual expression. Discriminating against a person because of their gender is wrong. If you told you can't do something because you are male or female that is wrong. Making things gender neutral is a way of combating that discrimination but it shouldn't be at the expense of individual expression.
All animals have inbuilt instinct. A baby giraffe has to be up on it's feet and running with herd within hours if it's going to survive. There is nobody there to teach it to run, it is instinct. Nobody teaches lizards how to breed. They do it naturally. Nobody teaches female turtles to haul themselves up out the water to lay their eggs in a safe place. Nobody teaches a male lion taking over a pride to kill all the offspring of the previous dominant male. He does it out of instinct to give his own offspring the best chance of survival.
Men have a natural instinct to spread their genes far and wide. We know how promiscuous young men can be! That is the best way of ensuring that his genes have the best chance of surviving. The more women he fertilizes the more children he will have. A woman on the other hand is hardwired to care for her children. If she abandons a baby it will die and her genes will die with her. We all instinctively want to see our genes spread and survive. How we do that is the difference between the male brain and the female brain.
In the modern world society has built certain moral codes which encourage the family unit and it is successful for ensuring the survival of the species. There is far more sharing of responsibilities now because the modern world allows us to do that but if you were to find a lost Amazon tribe the chances are that the men would be the hunter gatherers and the women the carers. This is because this is the most efficient model to help them to survive.
My guess is that if you are born with the instinct that naturally occurs in females then you will feel those instinct in your everyday life, It's fine if your brain is in the body of a woman but if it is in the body of a man then you will have a gender dysphoria.
I sometimes think the questions is not 'Why do men crossdress' but 'Why do little boys crossdress'. By the time we get to be adults crossdressing is hard wired into our brains.
We learn by getting rewarded by our experiences. A dopamine hit every time we do something pleasurable. As I said this could be tactile (the feel of satin, silk and stockings), visual (the sight of women clothes - watching your mother getting ready to go out) or emotional (wanting the attention that your sister gets for being girl). Something triggers us to try the clothes. IF we get that hit then we're hooked. The sight, feel, emotional lift we get is repeated and builds the pathways.
By the time we get to adolescence we are getting pleasure and feeling good from crossdressing. This goes to another level sexually which further reinforces these pathways. It becomes a bit of a fetish for want of a better word. We need these hits of dopamine because they make us feel good about ourselves.
We can get these dopamine hots from other sources. This is why I think that crossdressing sometimes wanes during our early 20s to late 30s. We have girlfriends, sex, sport all of which can create 'happy chemicals' in the brain. But we cannot continue to live on these hits as we stop sport, get married, have kids and life gets more stable and less exciting. That's when the urge to crossdress returns. Our brain remember the hit we got and how it made us feel good. Suddenly we find ourselves buying lingerie again. We get the hit, it makes us feel good , relaxed, de-stressed and we're hooked again.
Slowly we progress from lingerie, to clothes to wigs, make up etc. Each time we're looking for a new hit as we can no longer get the hit we used to from just dressing. I think that maybe the idea of going out in public is another level of hit. Just the fantasy of doing it can be exciting enough but the hit from the first time must be immense. We can never experience that hit again, the first time at anything is normally the biggest hit.
Can we control our crossdressing? Yes we can. The hit is only small and lasts a short time after which the cortisol floods back and we get a mini downer - guilt, shame etc. We don't want to dress 24/7 as we just wouldn't get the hit 24/7. I've spent nights away in a hotel thinking great I can spend all evening/night dressed as a woman. But it never works out that way. Invariably I'll change back into my male clothes after a while.
We don't need to crossdress all the time. If the opportunity arises then we'll go for it. But even then they'll be times that we know we're not going to get the hit so we don't. I quite often have the opportunity to dress 5 days in a row but by the second or third day I can't be bothered anymore. I know the feeling will return when my brain says it needs the hit. It's not really a conscious decision, it's sometimes stimulated by a visual clue such as a beautifully dressed woman, other times it's just a random thought that can trigger the urge. When it gets into your mind it can escalate until you get the chance to dress. The relief is great when you can dress and the hit is good.
Anyway this is my theory on the 'Davina' type crossdresser. We're hardwired to crossdress after many years of dressing. You can't blame a small boy for taking those first steps out of all innocence and curiosity. He didn't have any idea what it would lead to at the time - it was just innocent fun.
Would I go back to my young self and tell him not to take those knickers off the airer and try them on? I don't know. I guess our life experiences make us the people we are and if I hadn't done it maybe I would have been a completely different person. It has definitely made me more tolerant of people as being part of a stigmatized minority does give you a better understanding of the struggles other people face.
From my experiance as "Davina" i concur my dressing has grown from a series of events from young to current no glitch in my programming very concious as to what im doing and very much in control.
Ive done the male v female brain and had resuts female and male depending on tweaking answers just slightly.. The only difference i see is social conditioning. Youre a boy and youre a girl you do this and you do that..
Katie, interesting thoughts there. I think you're onto something for sure. So you'd say the Davina type is a series of events in early childhood (or even just one small moment could be a trigger), while the dysphoric type has a glitch in his operating system or lizard brain that causes his/her discomfort?
Sounds logical to me.
But, I wonder what is that glitch? As Hannah and I mentioned, we don't understand the male/female brain thing. Ask anyone, even some macho-headed thug who eats car tyres for breakfast, if he feels like a man and he's likely to say he KNOWS he's a man but what does a man FEEL like? Do men feel different to women? (Then he'd eat another car tyre, lol.)
And how would anyone prove the female/male brain thing anyway? We know the physical difference doesn't exist, and we can't tap into other people's thoughts! So how do gender dysphoric people KNOW with such certainty that this discomfort they're feeling is a gender issue and not some other feeling?
This stuff could cause a brain aneurism! No wonder trans people have such a hard life. It's bad enough trying to understand it from the outside, but actually living with these feelings must be so confusing when you realise the majority of people never feel this way, and therefore can literally not understand what you're conveying.
I do think that we've debated the case of Bruce Reimer http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332396/Bruce-Reimer-Tragic-twin-boy-brought-girl.html but I think it proves a point. It shows that there is something internal that defines gender. If it is this 'lizard' brain that says how we should act then it shows it's not a case of nurture - a boy being raised as a girl knows that something is instinctively wrong. Going back to my computer analogy if you have a windows operating system in a mac it's not going to feel right. If you re-case it into a PC then it will feel better although the thunderbolt connection might not work!
I think that it is some sort of change in the 'lizard' brain that creates gender dysphoria. Your brain is saying one thing but your body another . Therefore, a person crossdressing because of gender dysphoria is a completely different person to a 'Davina' type crossdresser. As I said before butter v margarine. Look the same but completely different ingredients.
I think that the 'Davina' type crossdresser is created by life experiences which start as a young boy and are reinforced during adolescence. Neural pathways are created that are so strong they become second nature, the reason we can't fight the urge.
As an innocent young boy you don't have the mental capacity to know right from wrong (if crossdressing is deemed wrong) in the same way as an adult and you are discovering new experiences that you find enjoyable. Some of these may be visual, tactile or driven by emotion. What ever the trigger it builds these neural pathways that are continually reinforced by continuing to crossdress. It's unusual for a young boy to go all the way with make up etc (unless dressed up by his sister) but it gradually build. It is a reward system that makes him feel good every time he crossdresses. If this keeps happening then he will continue to get this reward of feeling good. It becomes a habit. This is reinforced by the introduction of a sexual element during his adolescence. More reward for crossdressing!
Why does it stop during early 20s to late 30s. I guess that there are other rewards which take over. It is a period of girl friends, sex, sport and other activities which provide the necessary rewards. When life becomes predictable and stressful then the brain goes 'Do you remember how good you felt when you crossdressed' And suddenly you're back on the bandwagon. Is there a cure for crossdressing? No, it's too deeply ingrained. Can it be tempered. Yes with other activities which will provide a reward. The issue is you can't go on chasing these other highs all our life and crossdressing is a simple activity that produces the effect you want.
I believe that the constant upgrades (wanting to go out) are a result of chasing a new 'high' once the old ones don't work. The reason we feel guilt and shame after crossdressing is the same as a drug addict coming down from a high (although nowhere near as bad).
Sorry gone off on one again. I do need to get all these thoughts in order.
I get totally confused with the male / female brain thing and have spent quite a bit of time trying to work out how I feel about the situation. Anatomically you can't tell a male brain from a female brain. So lets call a male a brain a PC and a female brain a Mac. They both do exactly the same job, look the same inside (quite often with the same parts) and it's just the outside packaging that's different. You could probably remove the insides from a PC and put it a Mac without anyone noticing a difference.
What is different is the operating system they start with. This is only very basic and doesn't allow you to do what a computer was intended to do but for all intense and purposes this is the 'lizard' brain that Sindy is so fond of. All animals are programmed with basic survival instinct - the operating system. Without this pre-programming they would not survive. To put it at it's most basic once the minimum requirements are met for survival the brain starts to operate on a very basic level. Males are programmed to copulate. It is how their genes are spread. Females are programmed to care for their offspring -it's how they ensure the survival of their genes. The more offspring they have the less care they take. As we only tend to have one child at a time and they are dependent on us for a long time we tend to spend more time in caring for them. We have developed as monogamous creatures through social conditioning but in other animals the dominant male will have a group of females so he can spread his genes far and wide.
Everything else we run on the brain, the programmes, are downloaded as we go along. These are our learned actions, opinions, biases etc. They can be the same programmes running on both operating systems (I have word on my mac). So I think for conscious thought there is no difference between the male and female brains. We are equally as capable of doing exactly the same things as each other. We can choose what programmes we download and sometimes we can be 'infected' with a virus that may make our thoughts and ideas alien to everyone else. There are also hormonal influences which will affect the function of the brain.
To stop the brain overloading we learn short cuts. Hot keys. The more we use these hot keys the more of a habit forms to the stage where it no longer becomes a conscious thought. These habits form when we are young and again during out teens when brain plasticity is at it's peak.
I believe that the brain has a number of influences on it during it's development. Some of these are genetic, some epi-genetic and some of them learned through experience. To what degree these influences are used to programme us determines what sort of person we will be. It is extremely difficult for the brain to unlearn a strongly reinforced habit. You spend time learning to walk and once learned you can't unlearn unless a specific part of your brain is damaged.
I believe that some forms of crossdressing (not all as transgender covers a wide spectrum) as learned habits during our early childhood and then reinforced during our teenage years. It's no longer a conscious decision but a reaction to a situation which is why quitting would be so hard (stop walking). I don't know what the trigger is but even something as simple as the feel of material that we find pleasurable will be enough to build the neural pathway. The more we do it the stronger the connection until it becomes an unconscious decision. I can't stop crossdressing thoughts entering my head. They just do.
Anyway a bit of a long post and maybe a bit muddled but I will need to put it into some order later on but I do have a theory why some men crossdress.
I don't get the 'male brain/female brain' idea either, Hannah. I think you'd find most people would say the same. We feel like people and that's about it.
So it's ironic really that the people who see men and women as walking masculine/feminine cliches are the very people who harp on about gender equality and getting rid of gender roles. Sorry, which is it then? Do you WANT gender neutrality? If so, then quit 'transitioning' to the other side and behaving in some over-the-top supposedly male or female way, as you're taking everyone, especially women, backwards when you do that! Caitlin Jenner, you are the worst offender of them all!
I think maybe that's my BIGGEST issue with transgenderism. Aside from the 'gender fluid' people, crossdressers and transsexuals alike are just perpetuating this idea that women and men are vastly different and thus should look and be treated as such. It's infuriating.
Okay, rant over! lol
Oh, and totally okay with the womb thing...if men want to be pregnant and give birth, I'm more than happy to hand that over. And good luck to them! But word of warning...it f***ing hurts! haha
Were not all that different apart from the Biology and different bits i dont get this mens brains and womens brains were all the same at birth its just how were brought up from an early age to be boys and girls.
Put a boy in blue and a girl in pink have boys teams and girls teams in school sports etc
The difference is the conditioning we all place on kids
In my heart this seems like a really nice thing to do for people in the future. In my head it's something the NHS should only fund this once things like cancer, alzheimers etc. are dealt with with dignity and efficiency.
I would think some who have transitioned or way off to the right of the spectrum would rejoice at this and the thought of carrying a baby but this is really screwing with the anatomy and biology.
Hi Sindy
The video wasn't available this side of the pond. But reading your comments it does reinforce my theory of 'Davina' type crossdressers being created by circumstance.
Katie
Sindy!
Women dont dress up any more?
Why not?
Have you not been out lately and seen young women wearing next to nothing and high heels full makeup hair done trying to ensnare a mate ?
Then the next phase dating and moving in together her wearing sexy lingerie and enticing him with sex.. then the marriage proposal.. marriage kids and before he knows it shes in trousers flat shoes no makeup and hes thinking "what the hell happened? where did I go wrong? Who is she? Why arent we having sex any more?" He might ask her and she may say "I'm content ... You should love me as i am"
This unwritten change comes as a shock to the man suddenly glad hes not a praying mantis as shed have killed and eaten him by this stage...
Man looks in womans lingerie draws reminicing to a time When she'd wear lingerie instead of those cotton big knickers AND Man tries on the lingerie .. MAN Likes how they feel and how they make him feel man tries on more.... Man BEcomes a crossdresser.. woman finds out rejects this change and kills the man and eats him.. the end
Em, I do feel the same way about much of it to be honest. Katie's theory is a good one and I totally agree the lizard brain makes us have a baseline reaction to certain things...but I also think a lot of this gender stuff has been nurtured into people rather than nature had all the say.
I did find a video by Grayson Perry very interesting. Here's the link:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf7dCZrQ5sg
He's pretty certain that transvestism, and possibly even transexualism, is just a very male way of dealing with a problem. And that problem is the limits placed on men and personal expression etc. If you watch it you do get to hear another side, whether you agree or not. He makes the effort to compare motorcycle riders with crossdressers and I was actually a little shocked at the similiarites. One guy even says this great quote "being in control of a really powerful machine..'. I think you could say that about some crossdressers, to be honest, who see female image and form as sexy and powerful and crossdressing gives them full control of that. These men also find the outfits etc make them feel sexy, even though they admitted that most women hate the whole thing. Sound familiar? lol
Anyway, Grayson isn't convinced crossdressing will even be around in a few years as women don't dress up anymore so where would a boy even get the idea? And in the younger generation, groups like goth boys etc are entirely feminine without pretending to be women and without considering it crossdressing. I do wonder if you're a bit of an old, dying breed!
Anyway, since we're sharing ideas, it's another one to ponder.
Lizard brains ?
I just think the way we're taught from a young age by parents then teachers then friends etc leads us to differ.
Left away from society norms how would a boy and girl progress as in man and woman without being shown and told what a man is and what woman is and how to behave and whats expected.
I bet we'd find were very much alike
Hi Sindy
I'll try to answer your questions from my perspective. Obviously this is only a theory so any challenges are welcome.
The lizard brain is our basic survival instincts. People still react to dangers subconsciously even though logically there is no danger. If you had to think things through you'd probably be dead before the you worked through the various option. If you go to a zoo and see a snake through the glass. If the snake strikes out you'll automatically recoil even though you know there is glass between you and the snake and that it can't hurt you. Likewise your lizard brain controls how you act according to your sex. As I said previously men are wired to breed with as many partners as possible. We will be aggressive to achieve this aim and then fight to protect their offspring. Women are wired to seek suitable mates who can protect them and provide for their offspring. As you said before Sindy, your lizard brain recoils at femininity as you don't see that as good breeding material.
So fundamentally there is a difference in the expectation of both males and females in any animal. Obviously there are exceptions, male seahorses, for instance, care and carry the young in a pouch but these are behaviors developed as a result of evolution and it works for them. We have developed a way that works for us (human beings). The larger the brain the more care required to reach adulthood. Women are naturally the carers as they have the bond with their child. Modern society has adapted the model to include monogamy but that is not necessarily the natural state. Why do men and women have affairs? He wants to spread his genes far and wide and she may see a better opportunity. It happens in nature all the time, take the crossdressing squid who sneak in behind the dominant males back. The female squid will mate with the crossdressing squid as it give her greater diversity in her offspring, and therefore a greater chance of survival.
So lets say that your brain identifies with the female traits. You want to attract a male. You want to care and nurture. Your not aggressive. Do you identify as male or female? That is where the subconscious brain is telling you something that your conscious mind cannot accept. Gender dysphoria? Maybe. It's a theory and maybe a bit lose but it seems to fit and makes sense to me.
With regard to the 'Davina' types falling down the rabbit hole, well that's down to the compulsive nature of men. How many men do you know with a hobby who are content to ever stop. They always want the biggest, best, most whatever it is. How many men have ever completed their hobby? It doesn't just affect men, I've watched programmes with women addicted to plastic surgery. The more they have the more ridiculous they look and yet despite medical warnings they continue. There will always be people who will go to extremes. You make is sound as if there are herds of male crossdressers swarming around the women's wear in the departments stores. Yes you might see one or two out and about but as a percentage of the number of men who crossdress it's probably very small. Most of us can keep a cap on it. Yes we might fantasize about going out but very few venture passed the front door.
I don't think that being a 'Davina' type crossdresser will lead to transition. God I couldn't go through the whole process just to push my hobby to the max. If somebody wants to transition then they have gender dysphoria. As I said don't think that all crossdressers are the same, some are butter and some are margarine.
Katie
Youre right Sindy
Myself and Katie and many many others have a handle on this or a lid where we can put our crossdressing back into a box until the urge returns.
Like ive said before sometimes you get the urge but cant dress and in terms of dressing being a spot of stress relief supressing this medicinal urge i feel can do some harm as im currently feeling a bit of stress more frustration in work as more and more work piles up or is added to my role and I've not crossdressed since about the 2nd week in January putting it off with opportunity working from home but work needing to be completed so Suppressing the urge to dress.
Where youre right is some tgirls will push the boundaries with crossdressing and as the one girl in a vid on here says dress more and more want to remain dressed wants to transition..
Thats not really who I'm aiming this forum at but all are welcome to share their experiances and angst.
So yes uncontrolled i see your point and weve all seen and read how men have crossdressed in secret for many years and after a 20 year marriage with kids declare they want to transition.
It can be controlled the urge can come and go but i cant explain why some transition at the end of it as i know i have no intention of doing that and at some point when i dont feel i can look the part i foresee i may stop.
I don't know how I feel about gender neutrality. I probably wouldn't care if that's all I'd ever known. But, let's face it, we will never have 100% neutrality as even if everyone dressed like Spock, women would still have the boobs and hips. (And some men who liked to cross the line! lol)
I guess I can sort of understand the lizard brain issue. I don't really get though, why it has such a profound effect on people. I would think our primitive biological needs are really quite faint these days. Seems many, many women can completely ignore and even entirely miss any desire to have children. Plenty of men can remain happily monogamous with less of a desire to spread their seed than an old lady lol.
So why on earth does it create such chaos in the lives of those where it's a bit mixed up? I would think for most with the wrong lizard brain signals, that a man might grow up with a stronger desire to have offspring, and perhaps a woman is a bit more promiscuous than her friends. But rearranging body parts, delving into the opposite isle in the clothing shops and telling everyone you're the opposite gender literally makes no sense to me. The lizard brain just isn't that powerful in the rest of us. So why is it so destructive in trans people?
Ah well, not really something I'll ever have to personally deal with. My lizard brain doesn't function at all anymore lol. Nothing works the older you get, so maybe trans people just need to wait it out and the urge will finally go.
I am curious though, about the Davina types, and why it starts so small and simple and can turn into a lifestyle. Not all, of course. You and Davina keep it well under control. But what about the men who were just ordinary little boys, not effeminate, who started crossdressing out of curiosity etc, and yes they keep seeking that next high, until one day they're telling everyone they ARE a woman and it's time for hormones. What on earth is going on there? To me, if they're the same as you and Davina, then that's crossdressing that becomes harmful. Body modification because you have an addictive compulsion is really quite appalling. And yet, that other forum shows it's really not uncommon. When I was on there for a few months, I literally watched some of the tame Davina types fall down the rabbit hole and upheave their entire lives to live as a woman.
It was especially telling that these men didn't want to just be plain ordinary women. They wanted to be BEAUTIFUL women (which was never gonna happen, oh dear) as though their fixation and fantasy about female presentation had turned them a wee bit insane.
I guess alcoholics can drink themselves to death. It makes sense a crossdresser could crossdress their entire lives away, losing everything in its wake. Sad, but I guess it's their choice not to get the right help instead of constant validation seeking, which is what those crossdressing forums are. I swear a man could pop on there and tell everyone he only liked to wear a bra and everyone would insist he was just hiding his true female self and he should immediately go dress as a woman and call himself Barbie.
I think Davina crossdressing can be quite dangerous in the wrong hands. Worse even than the lizard brain dressing, as at least there is some biological reality at its core.
Gender Equality v Gender Neutral
Hi Sindy
I'm all for gender equality.
I think that men and women should be treated with equal respect and their choices accepted. That means that if I want to express a feminine side which may be more extreme than the average woman then I should be entitled to do so without prejudice. I would not criticise a woman for dressing in the same way as I might or in fact in an ultra feminine way as is often seen on the red carpet. That is a choice that they make. Some women enjoy dressing up and that is their right. I don't dress the way I do as an insult to women. Everything I buy is high street fashion - it is how I like to see myself dressed. I do not force this on any other women. As a crossdresser I have an image of femininity that I want to achieve. It is not a statement on how women should dress. I find women attractive in clothes I would not want to wear and feel that they have every right to dress as they wish.
i think if everything was gender neutral then it would be pretty boring. There would be no scope for individual expression. Discriminating against a person because of their gender is wrong. If you told you can't do something because you are male or female that is wrong. Making things gender neutral is a way of combating that discrimination but it shouldn't be at the expense of individual expression.
Katie
The Lizard Brain
All animals have inbuilt instinct. A baby giraffe has to be up on it's feet and running with herd within hours if it's going to survive. There is nobody there to teach it to run, it is instinct. Nobody teaches lizards how to breed. They do it naturally. Nobody teaches female turtles to haul themselves up out the water to lay their eggs in a safe place. Nobody teaches a male lion taking over a pride to kill all the offspring of the previous dominant male. He does it out of instinct to give his own offspring the best chance of survival.
Men have a natural instinct to spread their genes far and wide. We know how promiscuous young men can be! That is the best way of ensuring that his genes have the best chance of surviving. The more women he fertilizes the more children he will have. A woman on the other hand is hardwired to care for her children. If she abandons a baby it will die and her genes will die with her. We all instinctively want to see our genes spread and survive. How we do that is the difference between the male brain and the female brain.
In the modern world society has built certain moral codes which encourage the family unit and it is successful for ensuring the survival of the species. There is far more sharing of responsibilities now because the modern world allows us to do that but if you were to find a lost Amazon tribe the chances are that the men would be the hunter gatherers and the women the carers. This is because this is the most efficient model to help them to survive.
My guess is that if you are born with the instinct that naturally occurs in females then you will feel those instinct in your everyday life, It's fine if your brain is in the body of a woman but if it is in the body of a man then you will have a gender dysphoria.
Katie
I sometimes think the questions is not 'Why do men crossdress' but 'Why do little boys crossdress'. By the time we get to be adults crossdressing is hard wired into our brains.
We learn by getting rewarded by our experiences. A dopamine hit every time we do something pleasurable. As I said this could be tactile (the feel of satin, silk and stockings), visual (the sight of women clothes - watching your mother getting ready to go out) or emotional (wanting the attention that your sister gets for being girl). Something triggers us to try the clothes. IF we get that hit then we're hooked. The sight, feel, emotional lift we get is repeated and builds the pathways.
By the time we get to adolescence we are getting pleasure and feeling good from crossdressing. This goes to another level sexually which further reinforces these pathways. It becomes a bit of a fetish for want of a better word. We need these hits of dopamine because they make us feel good about ourselves.
We can get these dopamine hots from other sources. This is why I think that crossdressing sometimes wanes during our early 20s to late 30s. We have girlfriends, sex, sport all of which can create 'happy chemicals' in the brain. But we cannot continue to live on these hits as we stop sport, get married, have kids and life gets more stable and less exciting. That's when the urge to crossdress returns. Our brain remember the hit we got and how it made us feel good. Suddenly we find ourselves buying lingerie again. We get the hit, it makes us feel good , relaxed, de-stressed and we're hooked again.
Slowly we progress from lingerie, to clothes to wigs, make up etc. Each time we're looking for a new hit as we can no longer get the hit we used to from just dressing. I think that maybe the idea of going out in public is another level of hit. Just the fantasy of doing it can be exciting enough but the hit from the first time must be immense. We can never experience that hit again, the first time at anything is normally the biggest hit.
Can we control our crossdressing? Yes we can. The hit is only small and lasts a short time after which the cortisol floods back and we get a mini downer - guilt, shame etc. We don't want to dress 24/7 as we just wouldn't get the hit 24/7. I've spent nights away in a hotel thinking great I can spend all evening/night dressed as a woman. But it never works out that way. Invariably I'll change back into my male clothes after a while.
We don't need to crossdress all the time. If the opportunity arises then we'll go for it. But even then they'll be times that we know we're not going to get the hit so we don't. I quite often have the opportunity to dress 5 days in a row but by the second or third day I can't be bothered anymore. I know the feeling will return when my brain says it needs the hit. It's not really a conscious decision, it's sometimes stimulated by a visual clue such as a beautifully dressed woman, other times it's just a random thought that can trigger the urge. When it gets into your mind it can escalate until you get the chance to dress. The relief is great when you can dress and the hit is good.
Anyway this is my theory on the 'Davina' type crossdresser. We're hardwired to crossdress after many years of dressing. You can't blame a small boy for taking those first steps out of all innocence and curiosity. He didn't have any idea what it would lead to at the time - it was just innocent fun.
Would I go back to my young self and tell him not to take those knickers off the airer and try them on? I don't know. I guess our life experiences make us the people we are and if I hadn't done it maybe I would have been a completely different person. It has definitely made me more tolerant of people as being part of a stigmatized minority does give you a better understanding of the struggles other people face.
Katie
From my experiance as "Davina" i concur my dressing has grown from a series of events from young to current no glitch in my programming very concious as to what im doing and very much in control.
Ive done the male v female brain and had resuts female and male depending on tweaking answers just slightly.. The only difference i see is social conditioning. Youre a boy and youre a girl you do this and you do that..
Katie, interesting thoughts there. I think you're onto something for sure. So you'd say the Davina type is a series of events in early childhood (or even just one small moment could be a trigger), while the dysphoric type has a glitch in his operating system or lizard brain that causes his/her discomfort?
Sounds logical to me.
But, I wonder what is that glitch? As Hannah and I mentioned, we don't understand the male/female brain thing. Ask anyone, even some macho-headed thug who eats car tyres for breakfast, if he feels like a man and he's likely to say he KNOWS he's a man but what does a man FEEL like? Do men feel different to women? (Then he'd eat another car tyre, lol.)
And how would anyone prove the female/male brain thing anyway? We know the physical difference doesn't exist, and we can't tap into other people's thoughts! So how do gender dysphoric people KNOW with such certainty that this discomfort they're feeling is a gender issue and not some other feeling?
This stuff could cause a brain aneurism! No wonder trans people have such a hard life. It's bad enough trying to understand it from the outside, but actually living with these feelings must be so confusing when you realise the majority of people never feel this way, and therefore can literally not understand what you're conveying.
I do think that we've debated the case of Bruce Reimer http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332396/Bruce-Reimer-Tragic-twin-boy-brought-girl.html but I think it proves a point. It shows that there is something internal that defines gender. If it is this 'lizard' brain that says how we should act then it shows it's not a case of nurture - a boy being raised as a girl knows that something is instinctively wrong. Going back to my computer analogy if you have a windows operating system in a mac it's not going to feel right. If you re-case it into a PC then it will feel better although the thunderbolt connection might not work!
I think that it is some sort of change in the 'lizard' brain that creates gender dysphoria. Your brain is saying one thing but your body another . Therefore, a person crossdressing because of gender dysphoria is a completely different person to a 'Davina' type crossdresser. As I said before butter v margarine. Look the same but completely different ingredients.
I think that the 'Davina' type crossdresser is created by life experiences which start as a young boy and are reinforced during adolescence. Neural pathways are created that are so strong they become second nature, the reason we can't fight the urge.
As an innocent young boy you don't have the mental capacity to know right from wrong (if crossdressing is deemed wrong) in the same way as an adult and you are discovering new experiences that you find enjoyable. Some of these may be visual, tactile or driven by emotion. What ever the trigger it builds these neural pathways that are continually reinforced by continuing to crossdress. It's unusual for a young boy to go all the way with make up etc (unless dressed up by his sister) but it gradually build. It is a reward system that makes him feel good every time he crossdresses. If this keeps happening then he will continue to get this reward of feeling good. It becomes a habit. This is reinforced by the introduction of a sexual element during his adolescence. More reward for crossdressing!
Why does it stop during early 20s to late 30s. I guess that there are other rewards which take over. It is a period of girl friends, sex, sport and other activities which provide the necessary rewards. When life becomes predictable and stressful then the brain goes 'Do you remember how good you felt when you crossdressed' And suddenly you're back on the bandwagon. Is there a cure for crossdressing? No, it's too deeply ingrained. Can it be tempered. Yes with other activities which will provide a reward. The issue is you can't go on chasing these other highs all our life and crossdressing is a simple activity that produces the effect you want.
I believe that the constant upgrades (wanting to go out) are a result of chasing a new 'high' once the old ones don't work. The reason we feel guilt and shame after crossdressing is the same as a drug addict coming down from a high (although nowhere near as bad).
Sorry gone off on one again. I do need to get all these thoughts in order.
Katie
I get totally confused with the male / female brain thing and have spent quite a bit of time trying to work out how I feel about the situation. Anatomically you can't tell a male brain from a female brain. So lets call a male a brain a PC and a female brain a Mac. They both do exactly the same job, look the same inside (quite often with the same parts) and it's just the outside packaging that's different. You could probably remove the insides from a PC and put it a Mac without anyone noticing a difference.
What is different is the operating system they start with. This is only very basic and doesn't allow you to do what a computer was intended to do but for all intense and purposes this is the 'lizard' brain that Sindy is so fond of. All animals are programmed with basic survival instinct - the operating system. Without this pre-programming they would not survive. To put it at it's most basic once the minimum requirements are met for survival the brain starts to operate on a very basic level. Males are programmed to copulate. It is how their genes are spread. Females are programmed to care for their offspring -it's how they ensure the survival of their genes. The more offspring they have the less care they take. As we only tend to have one child at a time and they are dependent on us for a long time we tend to spend more time in caring for them. We have developed as monogamous creatures through social conditioning but in other animals the dominant male will have a group of females so he can spread his genes far and wide.
Everything else we run on the brain, the programmes, are downloaded as we go along. These are our learned actions, opinions, biases etc. They can be the same programmes running on both operating systems (I have word on my mac). So I think for conscious thought there is no difference between the male and female brains. We are equally as capable of doing exactly the same things as each other. We can choose what programmes we download and sometimes we can be 'infected' with a virus that may make our thoughts and ideas alien to everyone else. There are also hormonal influences which will affect the function of the brain.
To stop the brain overloading we learn short cuts. Hot keys. The more we use these hot keys the more of a habit forms to the stage where it no longer becomes a conscious thought. These habits form when we are young and again during out teens when brain plasticity is at it's peak.
I believe that the brain has a number of influences on it during it's development. Some of these are genetic, some epi-genetic and some of them learned through experience. To what degree these influences are used to programme us determines what sort of person we will be. It is extremely difficult for the brain to unlearn a strongly reinforced habit. You spend time learning to walk and once learned you can't unlearn unless a specific part of your brain is damaged.
I believe that some forms of crossdressing (not all as transgender covers a wide spectrum) as learned habits during our early childhood and then reinforced during our teenage years. It's no longer a conscious decision but a reaction to a situation which is why quitting would be so hard (stop walking). I don't know what the trigger is but even something as simple as the feel of material that we find pleasurable will be enough to build the neural pathway. The more we do it the stronger the connection until it becomes an unconscious decision. I can't stop crossdressing thoughts entering my head. They just do.
Anyway a bit of a long post and maybe a bit muddled but I will need to put it into some order later on but I do have a theory why some men crossdress.
Katie
I don't get the 'male brain/female brain' idea either, Hannah. I think you'd find most people would say the same. We feel like people and that's about it.
So it's ironic really that the people who see men and women as walking masculine/feminine cliches are the very people who harp on about gender equality and getting rid of gender roles. Sorry, which is it then? Do you WANT gender neutrality? If so, then quit 'transitioning' to the other side and behaving in some over-the-top supposedly male or female way, as you're taking everyone, especially women, backwards when you do that! Caitlin Jenner, you are the worst offender of them all!
I think maybe that's my BIGGEST issue with transgenderism. Aside from the 'gender fluid' people, crossdressers and transsexuals alike are just perpetuating this idea that women and men are vastly different and thus should look and be treated as such. It's infuriating.
Okay, rant over! lol
Oh, and totally okay with the womb thing...if men want to be pregnant and give birth, I'm more than happy to hand that over. And good luck to them! But word of warning...it f***ing hurts! haha
Were not all that different apart from the Biology and different bits i dont get this mens brains and womens brains were all the same at birth its just how were brought up from an early age to be boys and girls.
Put a boy in blue and a girl in pink have boys teams and girls teams in school sports etc
The difference is the conditioning we all place on kids
Hannah (Wife)
In my heart this seems like a really nice thing to do for people in the future. In my head it's something the NHS should only fund this once things like cancer, alzheimers etc. are dealt with with dignity and efficiency.
I would think some who have transitioned or way off to the right of the spectrum would rejoice at this and the thought of carrying a baby but this is really screwing with the anatomy and biology.