Agreed Emma men shoukd grow up and realise theres more to life than acting macho but i do feel sorry for them in a way they are steriotyped bless them

Seems weve found a few whi can express a softer side but needs to be crossdressed to do it

Rebecca (wife)

All the above macho stuff is so stupid but expected as we look for strong men athletic sporty and confident

Unfortunately its what society says you have to aspire to be the sucessful bread winner husband and father but the top reason for early death is stress probably so you need an outlet and i now have better understanding and realise crossdressing helps no idea why but it does so not much point in fighting it just enjoy it.

Emma (wife)

I didnt find crossdressing or the fear of being caught traumatic lol the fear of being caught could be exciting.

I never once thought about being gay, was there something wrong with me etc i was shy but had girlfriends tho nowt serious as was too busy out running kicking a ball playing football rugby or cricket to spend much time with girlfriends who fizzled out more than broke up.. Id better break it to a few that were not an item any more haha

No serious girlfriend until i was 19\20 which is when i met my now wife. And been together ever since telling her i was a crossdresser in my mid 20s as a result of her out of the blue asking me to dress as a woman or let me make you up as a woman something along those lines..not through sussing me out just out of i wonder if hed let me dress him as a woman for a laugh.. missed opportunity to lie say i liked it and make it her idea mke it that she turned me into a tgirl but opted for the truth which is working out well almost 20 years later

I dont think it has anything to do with playing sport, being alpha, being a soldier and everything to do with loving women and the feel of woemns clothing the thrill of it the fun in transforming and being something or someone different for a few hours.. people who dress are far too diverse and reasons too varied.

my wife Also said no one would ever suspect or think or believe male me woukd crossdress.

Hi Davina

It's not the act of crossdressing that is traumatic, It's the fear of being discovered that causes the trauma. It's the key in the door moment that sends you into a panic. You're on edge knowing somebody could come home at anytime.

As for being gay. I knew what gay was from an early age. My dad used to work with a gay couple so I knew that it was men who liked men. I guess when you're really young the thought of anything to do with girls is ... but as you get older you start to fancy them. I was really shy at school and never really had a proper girlfriend until I left. The peer pressure builds so you start thinking 'Is it because I crossdress that I can't get a girlfriend, is it because I'm gay (remember the first question you get asked)'. I crossdress and I can't get a girlfriend what's wrong with me? Of course things change but I do remember having these thoughts.

I never played sport to deliberatley hide my crossdressing. Maybe crossdressing is prevalent in the sort of guy who plays sport, is in the forces etc. A lot of the crossdressers on another forum seem to have been in the services. Not sure if it's hiding away from crossdressing or just coincidence. I know my wife said she thougt I'd be the last person to be a crossdresser and that probably goes for a lot of us.

Katie

I've added your initial paragraph as a new post for the ladies here to discuss. I'll be interested in their understanding of the statement, their initial thoughts and their perspective on it now with a degree of acceptance and understanding

As a child there was no traumaa for me around crossdressing just liked the feel of the clothing but ingrained in me to hide it.. I wasnt ever confused about what i was doing it was fun and felt nice to do as a kid, a teenager and 20, 30 and 40 something..

As for GAY thoughts.. I honestly knew nothing about being Gay as a kid and very little as a teenager I just knew from an early age i loved women and never deviated from this.. It wasnt until my wife asked me if i was gay that the word ever cropped up in terms of my crossdressing

I never persued any sport or want to be an alpha male to hide the fact i liked to crossdress as crossdressing has always been something id do every now and then not something constantly on my mind must dress up must dress up.. just something i did and do when i felt like it .. that Urge.

I don't think the majority of 'Davina' type crossdressers are effeminate either as I'm far from that as a man ..

Like Katie I'm just a regular guy and blowing my own trumpet good or above average at everything i do or get involved in, a perfectionist, or as one of those business assessments told me im a compleater finisher.. have to compleat a project cant stop until ive finished something which adds stress on myself in work lol leading to crossdressing to unwind

Its very true once you get your own head around it and Once you accept that it is part of who you are it is easier to get on with your life. But this fear of rejection will always sit with us for as long as society deems it unacceptable for men to enjoy crossdressing with the biggest fear fear of how your wife or girlfriend will react.

I also think that the rejection some crossdressers recieve from their wife after revealing this secret can be devastating. To trust someone enough to share the burden you've carried for most of your life only to be rejected for it is tough. You've hidden this part of yourself for so many years to avoid being rejected only for it to happen by the person you most trust in your life. Psychologically it must wound.

You can see the pain in some of the posts on other forums. I don't think that crossdressers necessarily want acceptance in the terms of 'girly nights in' it's just the recognition that it is part of your personality and an understanding that you feel the need to express this part of yourself. Whether it is socially acceptable or not it is this understanding that many crossdressers crave from their partners.

I get that the reveal can be devasting for the partner as well. The crossdresser is often thought of as being decietful but I think partners need to understand that this is a secret that has been buried deep down and the fears of non acceptance by a partner are real.

To a degree crossdressing is the childhood trauma. As soon as you realise that crossdressing is frowned upon you live with a fear of being discovered. You still have the urge to dress which you fight. You self examine yourself and question why. It's very confusing when you are so young. We probably all followed the same questioning - I like to wear womens clothes, Am I gay? When you're old enough realise that you are not gay because you fancy women. How does that work? All the time you are trying to grow up in a 'normal' way which you succeed in doing by pushing the crossdressing deep down inside. May be you even over compensate by following 'manly' pursuits. Nobody expects a big hairy sports man to want to wear a dress and heels!

I don't think the majority of 'Davina' type crossdressers are effeminate. We are regular guys who enjoy regular guy things. It's just once in a while this urge takes hold of us and we have to express a side of ourselves that we normally keep well hidden. Once you accept that it is part of who you are it is easier to get on with your life. But this fear of rejection will always sit with us for as long as society deems it unacceptable for men to enjoy wearing dresses.

Katie

This is spot on Katie "I know that wives can never understand why we keep this secret. But if you've lived with this fear for so long it becomes second nature. To be told the secret shows an exceptional degree of trust that normally even exceeds that of a parent. Very often the wife is the only person to know in the whole circle of family and friends"

It's not just poems when you are young. Just look at Disney films - the big strong hero and the beautiful princess who falls into his arms. The bad guy is normally ugly and fat or skinny - what does that teach our children?

At school you have to do anything to survive. Is it any wonder that we (crossdressers) buried our secrets deep inside and trusted nobody. If you'd wanted to play with the girls and wear pretty dresses you'd have been ripped to shreds. Even now, in what is a more tolerant society, any boy expressing a difference will be scorned and not just by the kids. There was recently those parenst in Isle of Wight who objected to a little boy wearing a dress to school! I'm sure that in some of the religious states in the US a crossdressing boy would be looked at as an abonimation.

I do think that some of the schools play lip service to LGBT rights. Some kids do accept but they are the ones with accepting parents. There are still parents out there who would allow their kids to bully anyone who is different and see no harm in it. The old fashioned 'man up' type.

I know that wives can never understand why we keep this secret. But if you've lived with this fear for so long it becomes second nature. To be told the secret shows an exceptional degree of trust that normally even exceeds that of a parent. Very often the wife is the only person to know in the whole circle of family and friends.

Katie

I had a loving open upbringing I dont think the sport and boyishness and what made me an alpha male came from my family although my Dad always supported me in sport but it's more our society and peer pressure to behave a certain way from friends even teachers and sayings you pick up as a child even nursery rhymes tell us what we can and cannot do as boys and girls.. Nursery rhymes or propaganda?

What are boys made of?

frogs and snails and puppy dog tails

what are girls made of?

sugar and spice and everythgin nice

thats what girls are made of.

Just one dividing nursey rhyme.. somewhere along the line some of us thought hang on a minute sugar and spice and all things nice .. lets have a go at that. There are many other ryhmes showing boys as strong and harsh and girls as pretty and nice so even early on this is somewhere pushed at us..

I was always told to tell the truth, stick up for myself and speak up.. When i was younger I was shy but if rilled could become a Hulk.. Now I'm an Alpha but early on finding the sugar and spice nice this also stayed with me and made me an Alpha Male who is also a Crossdresser.

I've also brought my daughters up with my wife to tell the truth, stick up for themselves and speak up , to play sport, and win, to do well at school and take no crap from anyone so will i be making them Aplha women.. Is this a change in society.. They can wear what they want so crossdressing isnt a thing for them.

I dont think there is anything my parents did that made me a crossdresser / tgirl.. love of the feminine image, marshal wards and littlewoods lingerie sections in catalogues, the feel if satin, silk and lace.. that's what did it for me.. Crossdressing became part of something i enjoyed, made me feel nice and progressed to what it is today for me as simple as that.

I will take a photo of "Davina" with a football for you Sindy.. maybe an American Footballat Wembly lol

Good to have you back Sindy.

It doesn't matter how progressive you are in your parenting there are always going to be outside influences that you cannot control. I think a stable, loving family plays an important role in the upbringing of a child but once they start school and are subject to the influence of other adults, the media and more importantly their peers then sometimes you are fighting a losing battle.

At what age do boys decide that it is sissy to play with dolls and dress up as princesses? It at an age when they become conscious that it may cause them physical and mental harm if they do because of bullying. This is normally from the other kids who've learnt it from older kids - it's a cycle. It is reinforced by adults in the way that they treat boys and girls differently. I watched a programme where adults played with babies in a nursery. If the baby was dressed as a boy they played differently (boys toys) than if the baby was dressed as a girl (girls toys). Their tone and physicality was different. It wasn't a conscious decision it's just they way they were programmed by society.

Women are never going to get equality if children aren't treated the same.

Boys are taught subconsciously that girls are inferior. Boys are tough, strong, don't cry etc, whereas girls are soft and gentle (weak) and show emotions.

If you are a boy who discovers he likes pretty things and is soft and gentle (quite often shy) then you have to learn to hide it or you'll end up being bullied. It's matter of survival in the school play ground. Unless we break this cycle then we're going to continue down the same path. Having a mysogynistic president who bathes in the superiority of being a white male bully doesn't bode well for the future!

Katie

Oh lord, count me out of the conversation about BOTH sport and high heels haha.

And that book sounds interesting. Funny thing, my boy is doing all this to himself. We've always been very open to boys showing emotions and never had any bias that sisters are allowed to be more emotional than brothers etc. In fact, he's my gentle sweet boy who is also so very boyish and stoic and already takes it upon himself to hide when he's hurt and I need to coddle info from him. Seems even families with more open minds can't seem to change this restrictive male behaviour easily. Maybe there's even some innate side to it? You're fighting thousands of years of biology there...mammoth killing machines that you are lol.

I think time will be the ultimate solution because modern men I think are slowly realising there are no mammoths and the biggest threats to our lives are usually small stupid white men who lead countries into pointless wars. (You know I'm talking about you over there, orange Cheeto man!) So maybe just supporting our boys in this new fangled world and showing them, as we're already doing, that they can be and feel and do whatever they wish just like girls might one day write over the coding that says men must be stoic and brutish and ready to protect the tribe at a moments notice.

Meanwhile, you guys can start the process by talking sport in your high heels. We really do need a photo of that!! :-D

We'll have to find a way to chat Katie and have a chin wag about sport lol oh and high heels haha

Agree with all that Katie.. Sport needs to be fun or people stop playing it story of my sporting career as I set a high standard and also find it more enjoyable to win so looking ahead at an aging cricket team for example not bringing through younger players i saw the club was doomed and i ended up stopping playing even tho i was a first team regular. We ran 3 Teams now theyve had to merge with another team to keep going and all the kids stopped playing... Rugby and football clubs i played for similar happened usually down to being run by alpha male types sucking the fun from sport.

The ingrained brainwashing of boys to become MEN is sad and doesnt help our case as Crossdressers trying to convince people were as man as anyone.. The word Sissy crops up

No. I think it's about not having to be 'manly' to be a man. It's OK to cry and talk about feelings (although I too find that very difficult). Yes crossdressing is a release valve it's just that if we perpetuate the need for boys to be boys and all that entails - it's not always healthy.

If you equate it to football. Too often the kids are treated as mini adults with all the pressures that brings. They play football because it's fun but adult can ruin it for them. You get the old fashioned Dad - It's about toughening them up - playing in riduclous conditions on frozen pitches to 'man up'. Where's the fun in that? No wonder 70% drop out before 14. Leagues, must win games, points, pressures - that's adult football and not kids football. My role is to develop them into good players who will continue playing for the fun of it. If they get good enough they end up in an academy but for the majority it's just enjoying playing football both now and into their adult lives.

Adults put too much pressure on kids. Just let them be kids and express themselves. Lewis Hamilton got into hot water because he criticised his nephew for wearing a princess dress. What harm does it do if he want to wear a pretty dress? Not man enough for a 7 year old! Can't boys just enjoy their childhood without having to 'man up' all the time. No wonder suicide is the biggest cause of death for under 45 men in the UK!

Living up to a stereo type is hard when you feel you don't fit in. I hid my crossdressing for years through fear that I wasn't going to be manly enough. Not live up to societies view of a man. I don't think my crossdressing make me any less of a man. Nor does me crying at sad moments on TV. I think it shows a more rounded charatcter who can express themseves in different ways. It make me less pent up with negative feelings - just sticking on a dress and heels. Cricky if we could all show a gentler side instead of being the macho man I'm sure that society would be a lot nicer.

Katie

So is your wife trying to make you remember what being a man is about and forget the crossdressing?

Is it a message?

Pretty much how we bring boys up and how we develop to be Alpha Males and how i am as a man

Don't cry - I never cry

Love sport - oh yes

Play rough - Physically and mentally

Drink beer - Is there any other drink?

Don't talk about feelings - This is something i find hard to do

The solution(for me) is Crossdressing as I'm pretty sure the list is pretty unhealthy for men to maintain without an outlet.. find it weird myself as probably playing football or Rugby got rid of aggression and stress but now i'm in my 40's its Crossdressing which has become my unwinding tool helping me to relax, unwind, de-stress and let down the Alpha male fascade..

I'm still a man and dressing as a woman makes me no less a man or a boy and its so occasional

Also involved in Football coaching and will be doing FAW coaching soon lol How Manly.

I did actaully get a couple of other books for myself with Christmas money:

How to physically develop an elite soccer player: ages 8-16 &

Making the ball roll - A complete guide to youth football for the aspiring scoccer coach

I do love my sport - hence previous answer!

Working towards my FA level 2 coaching qualification so lots of good reading.

Katie

Yep. It's an autobiography that question if the usual rules for being a man are actually any use:

Don't cry

Love sport

Play rough

Drink beer

Don't talk about feelings

OK. I think love sport and drink beer are useful but the others just screw you up!

Katie

You had this as a present? How to be a Boy... Off your wife?