I was in Sorrento, Italy a few years back and one of the lovelest things I saw was, in the early evening the teenagers would congregate on there scooters, that they all seemed to have, and the girls were applying makeup to the boys faces, in a loving way. That's how life should be. No prejudices jusy having fun and enjoying themselves.

I must be like your husband Sindy as in work I can't leave something unfinished even if that means bringing it Home and working unpaid overtime and cross dressing is all or nothing and if I don't get the chance to dress fully with makeup a wig etc to look as convincing as possible for a brief few hours I don't cross dress.

Compare this to years back trying things on would calm the urges but maybe this was due to realisation I could look quite convincing fully transformed and that's part of the fun of it

The difference with football is I'm in my early 40s now and not as for as I once was and can't play football or rugby to the standard I once played so I no longer play apart from the odd kick about but nothing professional as in league football.

Who knows what will happen with my cross dressing if I no longer look the part in a few years time I may stop cross dressing time will tell.

Not going anywhere just yet! But will at some point as things will hopefully be resolved and gawd help me turning into some forum 'matriarch'. Yuck! I consider myself far too multi-dimensional and hip to end up obsessing about crossdressing all day. Please slap me if that happens! It's fun to rant and chat but we have lives, too. Don't we?? lol

Katie, Davina, Em, I consider you all friends, too. And I enjoy all the new voices we're getting here. This was a good idea, Davina. More people are chatting now.

hijinx, the sofa comparison is a good one. I do think my husband has a thing for doing things all the way. He can't go half measures with anything. Not me. If I were a crossdresser you'd see me wearing half a business suit, hair still long, and a pair of flip flops on my feet coz I got distracted lol. I would be terrible at it! x

I have gone form no makeup to never leaving the house without minimal makeup at least.

I hope you get your girls night in Davina and make it fin for your wife too to keep her interest not making it all about you xx

Em x

If you get your makeup right and look in the mirror and see yourself looking like a woman as good as you can yes it's a satisfying thing.

If you get your makeup wrong it's not so satisfying.

For me part of the fun is the transformation and getting makeup right.

I'm pretty minimalistic with makeup but have recently tried contouring but still keeping it natural looking it's just a pity I've not had much opportunity lately to dress and relax.

A much needed girls night in experimenting with makeup with my wife and going through my collection of women's clothes thinking it out is needed.

I wonder if this hits the right note as it did with me when I heard it.

There's a proramme on tv called 'Money For Nothing', I was watching today. On it was a guy who started life as a designer but changed to designing and making sofa's, bespoke sofa's, and what he said resonated with me. 'I love designing them and seeing the finished product, it just makes me so happy when I see the finished sofa'.

Isn't that how we feel when we put on women's clothes and look in the mirror and , 'yes I love that'.

Or is it just me lol

"I think Emma has it right though. Wouldn't it be lovely if women embraced their men (metaphorically) dressing en femme and just enjoyed each others company in the privacy of their own homes"

This is a utopia I would have thought for a cross dresser to have an accepting partner over the is he this or that or what if this or that and just relaxed and thought nothing of it if this happened once in a while as after all our cross dressing is only occasional.

My wife and I have had 4 or 5 girls nights in which have been ok allowing us to talk about dressing and other things but I do feel she feels awkward about it and would love her to relax more like Emma and just try to enjoy some aspect of me being there cross dressed as she does say I'm nicer to her when dressed up.

Still a tricky one though for most wives to see us dressed as women.

I must be the odd one out then Sindy. I don't want to be a woman or particuarly look like a woman, (in fact I have a beard), I just love the clothes. I'm not too keen on so called crossdressers on websites, just wearing bra, panties and stockings. I think that could be men just trying to get sex because they are not getting it at home. (controversial). With me it's about the clothes and the camaraderie that women tend to have. It is true, I am somewhat jealous of that. We see it start at an early age with girls being intimate with each other. Doing each others hair and makeup, swapping clothes etc.

Men have to do the stiff upper lip thing. It is only recently, in this country, that two men will embrace when meeting, women and the French have been doing it for years.

Anyway I don't know what the answer to it all is, I just know I enjoy it and not in a sexual way, I love to relax in the evening watching telly with a glass of wine dressed in a dress, so shoot me.lol

I think Emma has it right though. Wouldn't it be lovely if women embraced their men (metaphorically) dressing en femme and just enjoyed each others company in the privacy of their own homes.

Awww don't go Sindy you give so much to the Forum.. I only put it together last week at your request..

I wish I could get my wife on here.

We're away on hols at the moment but I'll get her on some time next week.

Also thinking of trying to add some links to the main page of subjects covered so we can try to avoid going over the same questions.

Hey Sindy

I get that you may need to move on from this forum eventually. It's been good chewing the fat with you and hopefully you'll still pop back from time to time. I think that when topics keep on coming up again and again the forum can go in two ways. It can go all fluffy and the talk just comes about what you're wearing and stories on going out or new people can join and debate the same subjects in their own way. If the old 'matriarch' is still hanging around then the thread can get shut down pretty quick with a 'I refer you to my previous answer'. Although ReineD does seem to keep things fresh from her perspective.

I hope that you've been able to help some wives sort through their issues with your point of view. To me the purpose of my posting has always been to help others.

I know that you're not going to change your point of view about your husbands crossdressing but hopefully it has helped you to form different views about the rest of us.

It has helped me to reassess my position and I don't think I could have done this without you. In fact my last post about the male menopause was a moment of clarity. I actually thought that HRT may stop my urge to crossdress but when I thought about it I didn't want to stop. That is the first time that I've admitted to myself that I don't want to stop. My marriage is stable and it doesn't affect my family life. In fact I'd miss the feelings it give me and wouldn't know how to replace them. It has also given me a different perspective on life and as I've said before I think that I'm a far more tolerant and accepting person because of it.

Posting here has helped me to think of other people.

Don't go without saying goodbye as I consider you a friend.

Katie

I thought I'd add, I'm not literally mad at you, hijinx. We have had this discussion enough times here for me to be almost incapable of getting mad now lol. You say women will never get crossdressers. I say ditto. Crossdressers will never understand the women they are so fond of imitating.

All we can do is chat and rant and hope something occasionally gets through to the other side. I have a feeling I will need to move on from this forum soon though. I feel Ive done all the discussing I can do and its time to move on and live life. I hope we all reach that point some day. x

So hijinx, you would be ok wearing womens clothing without also pretending to be female? That would mean skipping the wigs and shapewear and dressing in womens clothing as a man. Because if thats the case, then fine, I actually understand that FAR more than the pretending to be female part. Fashion choice is very different to wanting to swap genders altogether, which is what most crossdressers seem to do. Women fought for the right to wear pants, so why dont men fight for more choice too?

Coz that aint the point!

Sorry, but looking as much like a female is the goal for most crossdressers. It goes beyond fashion and I find this the biggest lie told to wives. 'It's just clothing', they all say. Yeah right. I dont know a single wife who ever bought that line. Clothing doesnt cause the mind-fuck that crossdressing causes. And this IS a mind fuck! If it wasnt, we wouldnt need this website and wives everywhere wouldnt be fretting. I honestly think women and even society at large could get used to men with more fashion options. But men hiding the fact they're men by turning themselves into women? Women never did that, and THAT is NOT about clothing.

Rant over.

I think Sindy has highlighted the problem of the crossdresser very well. To think it is as easy as saying 'men want what they can't have' is, quite frankly, ridiculous. If only life were that simple. Going back to what I've said about the Scot's etc, they don't stop wearing kilts even though they can. In fact they tend to wear them at every opportunity. I think Sindy has proved that real women will never understand why men crossdress.

Good point made by Davina regarding stores. Most 'unisex' clothing stores have one isle (if that) of men's clothes and many isles of womens and childrens clothing. I love the 50's retro style of women's clothing, bright and colourful. If I wanted to dress as a man of the 50's, shirt and trouser's. YAWN

Mens and women's side of the store?

Don't you mean the men's clothing corner of the store? We have little options and how can we change this? If I started a petition to have a 50~50 clothes store I'd be called sexist lol

If we could wear what we wanted and present unjudged then cross dressing wouldn't exist.

Put a skirt in the men's section we'd not wear it in public as it would be considered Gay by most men.

I dont wear mens clothihg, other than my husbands bathrobe which he leaves lying everywhere lol. All my things are from the womens section. Just becasue its not always dresses and skirts doesnt make it mens.

This is often said by crossdressers, that men need more options and if you had skirts hanging in the mens section that equality would happen and crossdressing would stop. I call BS. You would still go over to the female section and buy our stuff because thats the point. You like crossing lines. You liked it as a boy sneaking around at home and you like it as a man. I actually think you probably would stop crossdressing if men could wear anything, but not because you have more choice, but because womens clothing would no longer give you that euphoric feeling that you are delving into some secret female world.

Your problem isnt that men have less clothing options hanging on the store racks because men could change that if they really wanted. Your problem is that women dont want you on their side of the store and you feel you're entitled to be there. Fair enough, but call it what it is. And women wearing clothing from the female section are NOT crossdressing, even if that clothing is a suit and tie.

The bathrobe, however, is blatant crossdressing. It's warmer than mine so label it what you will, I ain't giving it back lol.

When I got married I used to dress more. My wife and I were of a similar enough size that I could wear her clothes. Just annoyed she was a couple of shoe sizes smaller than me, so I couldn't wear her shoe's or boot's.

Should there be a crossdressing site for women who like to wear men's clothes, oh no, hold on, they all do, so they don't need a site like we do. Thank goodness for equality. And any wife who moans about her husband wearing lady's clothes, don't wear men's clothes.

You are inspirational Emma and I will get round to asking my wife to come in here

I've made more of an effort as I mentioned in another forum post yet he is still crossdressing. So why?

I just asked him and he says it has little to do with me.

The little being now I'm back in heels and dresses etc the little bit of the why has gone but he still crossdresses because he enjoys it and it helps him de-stress from work and he likes how he looks and feels and I have no problem with that now my heads around it.

Its something of a hobby in a way which has been with him since young and the football thing yes you can stop playing and miss it but isn't Crossdressing more private intimate and individualistic so hard to compare.

It keeps him happy so I'm happy

Em

I for one am glad he told me as we have had fun with Crossdressing with makeup with shopping (him in male mode not brave to go out as girls shopping - apart from that one drive we had lol)

But I would hate for him to have kept his crossdressing a secret any longer and it showed a lot of faith in me knowing eventually I may accept it as something he does.

I would much prefer this to say the Karen Adler book where she discovered her husband was going out dressed as a woman (something to confess) or worse come home to find him crossdressed.

It's had a positive spin on my life also as I fell into a rut of comfort dressing and I look back on photos of myself over a 2-3 year period always in trousers and flat shoes or flip flops never in a dress and now since about June / July last year a revitalised me maybe seeing his crossdressing as a bit of a competition I got myself a new hair style, we went clothes shopping and shoe and lingerie shopping and makeup shopping and I was back in dresses and heels and makeup and getting plaudits and compliments for the change in work - A close colleague asked why the sudden change in image and i said "Well my other half was looking better than me when Crossdressed so i gave myself a kick in the backside and made more of an effort to look my best for myself and for him"

Like hell I said that lol I just told them I fancied a change of image.

So him telling me he crossdressed had a positive effect on us both and I'm 100% glad I know but that's a cue for another forum post

Em

Bahahaha! Imagine that - I kick him and the kids out while ushering in two glam crossdressers to spend the evening with. That would be the ultimate mind-f**k. LOL!!

Yep when can we come round Sindy tell your husband to take the kids out and we'll have a nice night in discussing crossdressing lol

Oh that would be a first face to face with actual people

Looks like it's all round to Sindy's for a night out lol.

My wife would say the same.

When I was out with her and her friends and laid out to them being the only man on the girls night out I should have crossdressed they said I should have and we had a laugh about it .

My wife was mortified knowing I was telling them about "Davina" also knowing they wouldn't believe a word of it as at the end of the night they said "As if you'd crossdress"

Shes said she'd be ok someone else being crossdressed but not me :(

Good point! lol!! And no, they dont discuss crossdressing with me. I had one awkward moment when one of them, who is still studying counseling, said some upsetting things in general. They dont know, obviously. Otherwise my experienced shrink buddy just discusses sexuality and childhood pathways etc on an overall level (she has mentioned another kink before though...hmmm) and its very easy to see where crossdressing fits. See, you're so normal you fit into boring old ordinary textbook stuff!

But we know that already. It's weird but also quite logical behavior in many ways, and most women arent threatened by it, until its THEIR partner. I know thats me. Whereas, Id be totally fine meeting you and Katie abd Sylvia out at a bar and drinking the night away. If my husband joined us, I'd be mortified and would leave. I probably wouldnt talk to him again.

How's that for weird!

I think Shrinks need to try Crossdressing before they advise on it .. willing to bet a male shrink tries crossdressing he becomes a crossdresser and confuses the hell out of himself and a female shrink tries crossdressing and realises why a man would want to dress as a woman having tried our clothes on lol

Davina, I think it's the perfect word so we're stealing it for here lol.

Sylvia, not sexual orientation as in gay, straight. Sexuality is more than just those. There are gay furries and bisexual BDSM dudes and straight women subs and people who probably have fantasies about flowers for all we know. Those sexual preferences have been shown to be influenced at these early childhood ages. And they're often as important as whether you're gay or straight.

Funny thing is, a lot of what I know here isnt because I'm a crossdress expert. Oh god no! I just happen to have two very good friends who are shrinks AND a sibling. We get on these weird topics all the time. One of my own children had to see a psycologist not too long ago and I was quite surprised, and maybe mortified, to learn how much influence small moments have on a young life, It actually seemed they held more weight than some of the larger ones. As one of my friends told me, its not so much that moment but how we perceive it. As a parent, we realise the damage is done, so to speak, and can only work with who they now are.

I need less shrinks in my life lol.

Femmophile is a word I added into my blog once describing myself as a love of the female image but someone came in and said that's not what it means but Sindy has backed this up so it is what it means.

Also sexuality is very complex as are labels as I've added in my blog there are loads of labels to try to define different types of trans and sexuality but I like to define myself as a Femmophile a lover of women and the female image.

As for sexuality Straight Crossdressing Femmophile lol I fancy women I fancy the female image.

Then there's Crossdressers who fancy other Crossdressers seeing a female image now this starts to complicate things.. I fancy my reflection when Crossdressed lol.

That LGBT label is a nightmare that I ignore!

Sexuality is not just sexual orientation. At least, that's not how I view it, It's made up of all the bits of a persons sexual preference like kink and fantasy, and these parts make up someone's sexuality. Lord I hate these identity boxes. For me, if you adore femininity so much and feel inclined to experience it yourself for whatever reason and this turns you on, this is part of your sexuality. For most crossdressers I'd suggest it's a big part, and the 'box' crossdresser doesn't really describe you well enough. Femmophile? Is that a word? lol

Thing is, the biggest reason I believe there is a compatibility issue with women and their parthers who crossdress, is because the crossdressing is seen to compete with the couples sexual and even emotional relationship. 'She' is the woman who dresses how you like, behaves how you like, is fully controlled by you (how many men can say this of any woman) and she knows what you like. 'She's' a bitch!! lol

Why do women feel this way when clearly there is no actual other woman? Because I have yet to talk to a single wife who didn't feel her husbands dressing was linked to his sexuality in some way. And yet, try getting the men to admit this. Instead there are 100,000 internet pages with men insisting it's not about sex. It's the clothes. Or genetics. Or a mean mommy. Or the weather.

It's sex, baby! And as Freud was known for saying, everything humans do is about sex Everything! Even this blog, Davina, lol.

"Also remember humans form and complete their sexual identity as young kids" Sindy

Sindy, do they? That suggests that nurture, and not nature will decide whether a person will be gay or straight. I'm not sure I agree...

Is it sexuality? as that puts it with LGBT which I don't personally agree with unless that sexuality is straight and a love for women and the feminine image.

It wasn't until my wife shocked me asking if I was Gay when I told her I crossdressed that I even considered Crossdressing and sexuality never debating with myself if I was gay or bisexual as when dressed I was thinking of women.

It is a sexual thing in terms of fancying women being part of my starting point and dressing to emulate women wearing things I wanted to see and feel women wearing "getting off on it" as a young man.

But then in my mid 20s when my dressing kicked off again it became more of a relaxation and enjoyment thing trying to look convincing , putting on a wig and makeup and dressing to look convincing as opposed to tarty but still sexy so it's not lots its sex-appeal with me into the start of my 40's.

Working from home today glancing at updates as they come in and taking a break to update my thoughts but in man mode as kids are off school and my oldest can come and go with a front door key so I begin an awkward stage in my crossdressing as kids grow up and have more freedom.

Here's another Forum post "I'm ok with Crossdressing I get it but as long as my husband doesn't do it"

Also remember humans form and complete their sexual identity as young kids. I'm actually fairly certain it's ages 5 through 10. So your very early dressing sessions were still part of your emerging sexuality. We adults just like to distance children from sexuality yet it has very little to do with the act of having sex. And the reasons we like what we do are probably just coincidences and random life moments. Katie walking through a lingerie section could be one such moment. My husband having a similiar looking sister could be another . But I don't think there's some crossdressing biology at work and you're genetically doomed to emulate women. I'll post another article that will certainly show there are too many variations on this for it to be about the actual crossdressing.

The biology is male sexuality and the crossdressing is just how it manifested.

That's my two cents.

Clearly, its got to be a hard-wired trait which is why you keep it up through marriage. And the main way men hardwire their brains is through sex. So unless you were also a teen who had orgasms thinking about football, I think the reason you can stop football but not dressing is obvious lol.

Remember, all long term sexual relationships eventually shift from lust and sex to bonding and comfort. Your crossdressing relationship is no different. It's also the longest intimate relationship you've ever had and the reason it will often outlive a marriage!

Isnt it funny, I can understand all this on a logical level, and yet when my husband dresses I'm still like 'wtf is wrong with you?!'

:-D

'But like Katie if I haven't dressed for a while I do think about it a lot and the longer you leave it the more it gets to you but when you finally get opportunity it feels such a release of stress and total escapism which is so hard to explain.'

That's why I can't stop. Even if I don't do it physically I'll still think about it mentally. And the longer it goes the more the compulsion to dress grows which is why I can't just stop. I'm sure that it wouldn't be good for my mental health.

An alcoholic can avoid pub/bars and remove all temptation but when you're surrounded by images of beautiful women it's hard not to keep thinking about it.

Katie

I ate not being as fit as I used to be and hate not playing football and rugby especially going to watch rugby and seeing a gap which as a player i'd have gone for to make a break and the fullback kicks it instead infuriating.

I wish I was still playing Rugby, football and cricket but yep gave it up due to work and family life and getting older less fit and injury prone.

In terms of Crossdressing its not I couldn't give it up as I know how strong willed I am like my grandfather who decided one day never to smoke again and that was that, but I don't want to stop crossdressing as I enjoy it and it helps "somehow" with stress relief.

I feel I can look pretty convincing and maybe that's part of it (many things make up the why do I crossdress) so maybe if I can no longer look how I like to look as "Davina" one day I'll stop.

But like Katie if I haven't dressed for a while I do think about it a lot and the longer you leave it the more it gets to you but when you finally get opportunity it feels such a release of stress and total escapism which is so hard to explain.

So I could give it up if I wanted but it would do me no good and its fun so I shall crack on Crossdressing.

Before I was married and up to the point we had kids I used to play football and cricket. I'd play Saturday, Sunday, 5 aside on a Monday and train on a Thursday. I gave up playing when the kids came along as I could no longer justify the time (having twins was very time consuming) or the energy (got too old). I've made comebacks on occasions (5 aside) until I wrecked my knee but I don't particularly miss playing any longer. I train a kids football team and join in on occasions but I don't 'fantasise' about playing. So I've really given up doing something that I loved and enjoyed. It was a great release of stress at the end of the week and a big part of my social life. But I don't miss it. If someone said you can't kick a ball again I'd be sad but I could live with it.

On the other hand I just couldn't just stop crossdressing. If I don't dress for a few weeks I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about it. I'm surrounded by images of beautifully dressed women on TV. I am constantly reminded at home with all my wife's clothes and shoes around the place.

I know my wife would sooner I wasn't a crossdresser but I just can't stop. It's not that I don't want to it's that I can't. I can give up football but not crossdressing so why is that?

That was the point I was trying to make in my comments.

Katie

Hmmm good point Sylvia I didn't drop supporting my Sports teams or change anything else after getting married so why drop other things I enjoy which make up parts of me as the whole me and that's how I look at Crossdressing its a small part of me at the back of the queue behind my family, children, wife, work etc which helps me unwind maybe once per month if I can make that time over more important factors in my life to Crossdress.

Some may comment Crossdressing is different and wives may say we should drop it but that may be at the detriment to a part of a man which wives don't see as we are pretty closed books not letting feeling show very often. I'm willing to bet in everything my wife likes about me some of it is linked in a big flow chart to Crossdressing.

Not Crossdressing itself but maybe in my character (too early to put this into words)

Much better layout Davina, thanks... x

As well as being a tv, I am obsessed by all things aviation and early space exploration. Why would I suspend those interests when I got married? Rather, I prioritised my wife, home, job and family; and indulged my flying passion when I could. That reasonably succinctly mirrors how I've indulged my trannying for the past 36 years, having begun it some 12-14 years before- as far as I can recall.