By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stopping

'The men who you say want to stop only want to stop out of guilt and the need of their spouse to stop.. Some of these men may well be more than crossdressers and that surpression of ones true self must be very damaging.'

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stopping

Haha, I'll have a ponder...surely I can come up with some more intriguing thoughts here.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stopping

Good post again Sindy

It's sad to say that crossdressing for what it actually is is thought of as some perversion.

I'm not a pervert.

I love women, love my wife, love the female image, love a certain female fashion and I get a buzz of immense relaxation which is inexplicable when I transform myself from rugged Alpha man to my form of escapism which I've named Davina for sake of a reference name.

What do I do that's so perverted when cross dresser?

Sit at my desk and work on my laptop

House work

Watch TV

Chat online to other Trans and regular people (regular people? You know what I Mean but some would find this term an insult but hey I'm just quoting how mainstream society thinks and the loud majority wouldn't say trans fits into regular)

I think in terms of alcoholism there is harm there so stopping or moderating is healthy but if crossdressing can give such stress release inexplicable escapism for a few hours which I know gives me a health benefit then stopping may have the opposite effect and its not harmful to ones self or anyone else apart from the conditioning people have in society that's its wrong, weird and perverted for a man to dress as a woman..

The men who you say want to stop only want to stop out of guilt and the need of their spouse to stop.. Some of these men may well be more than crossdressers and that surpression of ones true self must be very damaging.

Good thread Sindy what's next?

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stopping

Yes, the question was whether it's true that you can't stop, as that's the general consensus. Wives and general Joe public don't understand this. Katie explained it well.

Davina, I think my husband could stop if he wanted but he doesn't want to either as the benefits are too great. I wonder though, for people who do want to stop, why there's no 12 step program etc? It's bound to be a compulsion on the same level as others (alcohol, sex etc) and yes, once a crossdresser always a crossdresser. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. You can't change a compulsion - only how you manage it. I have recovered alcoholic friends who literally think of taking a drink every single day. But they don't. I bet there are men out there who think of dressing every day but don't.

So the stopping myth is just a myth, isn't it? It's a dangerous one if someone NEEDS to stop for their own health and wellbeing and they're constantly met with this party line that you'll ALWAYS crossdress. Back when I was a member of a crossdressing forum I would see very sad, broken men posting that they didn't want to do it anymore and they wanted to save their marriages, families etc over the dressing, and the harassment they got from the other men was downright cruel. It really is like the mafia. If anyone suggested that yes, with hard work and control you CAN stop dressing and manage the compulsive thoughts, the screaming and shouting reached abuse level and these men were never heard from again.

I don't agree with that attitude. I have long felt the TG side to all this has an agenda that doesn't allow individuality. I often wonder how many men quietly and reluctantly consider themselves crossdressers without ever saying a word to anyone because they don't want to join some TG picketline. Vernon Coleman's survey suggested as many as 10% of men. These survey guys were so anonymous and unknown that one guy posted his anonymous answers from another town just in case!

Anyway, sorry for the rant lol. I just hate hate HATE when people are told who and how they are by the loud minority. I hate it in the TG population as much as the female population. We are all individuals and as many men as there are who can't stop dressing there might be men who can. We will never know because they're too scared to say anything...and why would they? If you stop doing something, you usually try to avoid all contact with it.

Anyway rant over. :-)

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stopping

I don't think Sindy was saying we should stop, she was interested in finding out why we can't. I don't think I could completely, I'd still think about it and the more I was denied the act the more I'd think about it which kinda makes it worse.

Davina wouldn't find stopping a problem but doesn't want to which is fair enough.

Could you stop or would you find it impossible?

By: Sarah Tgirl

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stopping

Why stop?

WE're not doing anything wrong or weird really

Some people are dressing as killer clowns

We're dressing as women in the privacy of our homes although in the last 3 weeks I've been out dressed and found it a great experiance

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stopping

Good post again Sindy and perfectly summed up by Katie

I know I could stop if I wanted to, the act of crossdressing that is like my Grandfather one day decided to stop smoking cigarettes and that was that it must be a strong will I've also inherited as I know I could stop if I wanted but... I don't want to stop as I enjoy Crossdressing and the de-stressing benefits I gain from becoming Davina.

I'm like your husband thorough, professional think things through etc but if I get the opportunity and have the Urge as I call it the Compulsion as Katies used then I'll Crossdress.

I could stop dressing but also as Katies pointed out we'd still probably think about it and what if we couldn't find another stress relieving hobby and if it affected out health... I'm going through a torrid time in work with so much to do and no support my stress levels are through the roof and I feel it doing me no good and need to break the cycle..

I look forward to next Tuesday being away with work packing Davina in my case spending the evening / night as Davina unwinding in the hotel room... Might pack a few dresses and have a fashion parade on my own lol.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Stopping

Hi Sindy

I don't think you need to wear a short skirt on the bus to flash children. I always thought it was a dirty mack!

The vast majority of crossdressers who venture out will do their best to blend or 'pass' which is the ultimate ambition. They don't want to stick out or draw ridicule they just want to get on with their lives expressing a part of themselves which for the majority remains hidden.

I think the high heels and short skirts tend to be more of a clubbing wear when small children should all be tucked up in bed!

I think that unless you've experienced a compulsion it very hard to explain to anyone how it feels. Just give it up is very easy to say but so hard to do especially when it your own brain that is playing the tricks. I

I think we've all known people who've been depressed. The immediate reaction is why can't they just pull themselves together and get on with life. But we all know it's really deeper than that and no matter how hard they try it can be a downward spiral. I'm sure they want to stop felling depressed it's just they can't.

The brain is far to complicated to understand and scientists are find out how it works more and more. It is a truly amazing things.

Ask said I don't want to stop the quirks that occur because without them we can't evolve. It's the way it is and the way it will always be.

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Stopping

Gosh, that compulsion definition is sort of perfect, isn't it? I especially like the 'irrational and contrary to ones will' part. That really does sum up what I know of my husband as in our every day life he's so logical and smart and considers his actions heavily before he does them. And then he dresses like a women in his spare time lol. Complete head spin and there really is no rationalizing it.

And no, I don't think society should care so much about something that on a broad scale is harmless. It does affect personal relationships and I feel sorry for all of us navigating that, but overall it's a very tame compulsion. You could even call it innocent!

I worry a little that outright social acceptance might turn some crossdressers into public nightmares who think it's suddenly okay to prance about in tiny skirts, flashing small children on the bus. I would hope common decency wouldn't mean a public stampede of fetish Rocky Horror wear...after all I'm a mom first and the idea sort of horrifies me lol. Thankfully I suspect this might only happen with a few, and the rest wouldn't change their habits much. They'd just be grateful for the social acceptance.

But, the average person on the street and pretty much every wife that newly finds out does wonder why he can't just stop. A wife especially takes this to heart as often it feels like discovering an affair and until she is more educated, she really can feel like he's cheating on her by continuing the behavior.

So your explanation is really helpful and I wish it could be posted in forums everywhere so partners and even the crossdressers themselves might understand this a little better.

And I don't think you're in denial at all. I believe it's a very deep and innate psychological compulsion that fulfills a need we might never understand. Humans are weird. As a crossdresser once told me, 'it is what it is'. x

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Stopping

Hi Sindy

This is a subject that keeps coming up on forums as people try to come to terms with their dressing. I looked hard and never found one post saying somebody has successfully stopped crossdressing permanently.

There's not even any anecdotal evidence that anyone has stopped. It maybe that people stopping avoid all contact with other crossdressers as an alcoholic may avoid the pub but I'm sure that there would be something out there on the internet knowing how many crossdressers would give it up if they could.

Saying that there are 'religious' sites who will tell you that crossdressing is sinful and that through the strength of prayer that you can be cured. But these are the same people who will tell you that homosexuality is sinful and against God's will. I'm afraid that I hold little faith in these sites. I'm looking for solid empirical evidence that people have stopped which I cannot find.

I think crossdressing is best described as a compulsion. The dictionary definition of a compulsion is 'a strong, usually irresistible impulse to perform an act, especially one that is irrational or contrary to one's will' which I think puts it quite well. If you eventually accept that you need to crossdress then it may no longer be against your will but early on there is a lot of denial and soul searching, even as a teenage boy.

It is possible not to crossdress for periods of time. I used to email a guy serving in Afghanistan. He had between 3 - 6 month tours of duty when he obviously couldn't crossdress but it didn't stop him thinking about it continuously. I'm also sure that there are crossdressers in prison who may prove more popular with the other inmates!

Is being denied the chance to crossdress the same as stopping?Are you still a crossdresser if you think about it and fantasise about it but don't actually wear the clothes?

There are also situations where guys may have dabble a bit when they were younger but the urge just disappeared until much later in life - typically the mid-life crisis.

So crossdressing can stop for periods of time, even for years or decades but it will always be there, part of who we are. We maybe able to control it as I think many of use do. If we couldn't then they'd be far more blokes tottering around in heels on the high street.

You may think I'm in denial but life would be so much easier of I didn't crossdress. Sometimes I hate the fact that I feel compelled to crossdress and it makes me grouchy and miserable if I can't. I don't think it's wrong and do enjoy the experience for all the reason we've discussed before it's just on a selfish basis life would be easier if I didn't.

They may eventually find a psychological 'cure' for crossdressing but I'm afraid that it is way down the list of priorities. Alcoholism, smoking, drugs and gambling additions are far higher up the list as they all harm society at large. At the end of the day crossdressing posses no threat to society, it may affect personal relationships, but then so do a whole host of other 'kinks', hobbies and annoying habits so society as a whole has no burning desire to make it go away.

The easiest cure is for society to accept that we are all different and that normal doesn't and shouldn't exist. If everyone is normal, average and the same then society doesn't progress in so many ways. It's the mavericks, weirdos and people willing to think outside the box that moves society forwards. If we didn't have these people then we'd still be living in the dark ages. Just look at what ISIS do. Women are abused, gay men are thrown from the tops of buildings and a crossdresser are beheaded.

Modern society has come a long way and still has a long way to go. So maybe we should all stop trying to find cures and just accept people for who they are kinks, warts and all. If people are a danger to society then they should be treated but for most they are just part of life's rich tapestry. Embrace difference and don't judge.

My life would be so much easier if people would just accept crossdressing as normal but until they do it does make my life difficult. I admire those who have the balls to go out there in public and carry the flag. They are the mavericks and pushing society forward for all of the rest of us firmly in the closet.

It's becoming more common to see a crossdresser out in public. I contacted an old friend about a post she put up about Leeds First Friday. Over 200 crossdressers get together on the first Friday of even month in Leeds and go out on the town. Now that would be a site!

Finally, Sindy, you're quite right, not crossdressing won't kill anyone. But isn't life too short to be miserable if you can do something about it? Do you really think society should deny people something they find fun, relaxing and enjoyable that may in fact have health benefits (less stress)?

By: Sindy

Subject: Stopping

To keep the questions going, I'll ask another one that confuses the average Joe. Why is it always denied that crossdressing can be stopped?

I remember hearing from other wives, and reading online, that most men who crossdress truly believe it's an unstoppable activity. Yet, breathing and dying, these are two things humans literally can't stop. In fact, you stop doing one and the other is sure to follow! Most other things you can stop if you like, but if you don't eat you'll die. You don't drink you'll die. You don't sleep, well maybe that kills us too. You don't have sex, well I think I'd be fine but not sure about men lol. But wearing clothing?

It's obviously not true that you literally can't stop crossdressing. No one ever died from not getting dressed! So what I think men are really saying is they don't WANT to stop but feel obligated to by a society who doesn't approve. Therefore, declaring it's innate and unstoppable, like eating or drinking, takes away the guilt of continuing the behavior. If it's innate, you're allowed to keep indulging. Am I right?

Yet, there are men in prison and men in the army. I'm sure crossdressers are part of all that and more. Yet, these men can't dress and I'm sure it hasn't killed them. So it's a bit of a group myth isn't it? Almost like the mafia - once you've joined, you're not getting out in one piece!

Too bad on those who do want to stop or actually have. Apparently, they don't exist!

Thoughts?

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The cure...

Ok I’ll go with we’ve discovered “Why men crossdress” finally and now here is the pill to make the urge go away. No more thought of crossdressing again. Ever. Finito….

Is Crossdressing so bad that the crossdressing cancellation pill would be given to every male baby.. bloomin drastic isnt it?

Would I be the man I am now without Crossdressing… a hell of a question to which I have no idea of the answer as I’ve crossdressed to some extent since I was about 6 … if I didnt crossdress I suppose I would find another way to let off steam or maybe not?

I would say Crossdressing is the hidden reveltation to a softer side to my Alpha male self with softer feelings hidden from my fascade? And maybe pscologically it is the considerate, kind, supportive and intelligent person I really am … Or that could be I was brought up right and learnt how to think and act for myself and is nothing to do with Crossdressing..

If I didnt crossdress I think i’d be the same person. No different.. but what if I had a partner who would wear stockings and heels and sexy lingerie and that part of the compulsion to crossdress to replace this not being something a partner does for me was then taken away.. leaving a gap in the pie chart then what if my job wasnt as stressful and the need to unwind Crossdressed wasnt there… another slice of pie gone.. then what if I didnt find it fun any more and further didnt find it a turn on and with age couldnt achieve the look I have perfected and no longer looked convincing (ish) and all of sudden these things coming together removed the main reasons and drivers for crossdressing.. I think this could happen in the future.

I’ve said before I cant imagine when I’m older wanting to dress my age and would look silly dressing as a 30something so maybe it will stop..

It can be assumed that Crossdressing makes men more reliable, loyal and compassionate but assume makes as ass of you and me as they say and not two crossdressers are exactly alike and yes it can cause irritability, selfishness and relationship complications if communication and understanding isnt right from the start.

Does Crossdressing need a cure? Is it that bad a behaviour just because society deems it so? Is it really that damaging? And dangerous?

Look at Lily Elbe in the film the Danish girl she was diagnosed as insane and given electric shock therapy based on a true story – Madness to think this actually happened to someone just because they were crossdressing .. ok the film goes off more to transexualism in the end but bloomin ek .. Not something I feel we need a cure for.. more we need to educate society that its not that uncommon for men to crossdress and there are straight married men red blooded men alpha male men who crossdress for a variety of reasons..

I would say genetics does play a part not necessarily that grandfather through father to son would crossdress but maybe in the female side the mother or grandmother eyc passed down in genes who knows..

It may be possible some traumatic event or maybe a difficult family environment triggered crossdressing and it became a coping mechanism (maybe)

Reasons for Crossdressing are far too varied for there to be one answer and one cure.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The cure...

I guess until there is a definitive answer we can only speculate as to what causes people to act in the way they do.

There are a whole host of factors that can shape a persons personality, the nature v nurture debate, and maybe there is more than one factor that can trigger crossdressing.

I think that it's universally accepted that abused children can grow up to be abusers so some behaviour can be learned. Crossdressing is pretty secretive so it is not a 'learned' behaviour.

I think there are also different types of crossdresser and so the triggers for each might be different. Some may well be psychological and others physiological.

Maybe even one trigger can create another trigger! Who knows your mothers clothing may hold an emotional meaning (being close to the person you love) and it ends up triggering sexual feelings (not about your mother but women) and ends up with crossdressing.

I've never heard of any who woke up one morning and decided that they become a crossdresser. I don't think it's a matter of choice just as I don't think you can choose to be gay. I think it has to be part of who you are and isn't a learned behaviour.

And yes we are all biased about ourselves, we need to justify what we do to ourselves and without being a little biased we'd get nowhere. Just reading an interesting book called "Bounce' talking about how top sports people managed to convince themselves they will win despite the odds. If they lose then they still take positives out of the defeat and will always blame other factors other than themselves. It's a coping mechanism.

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The cure...

Ah, that makes sense. I guess it also explains why it seems such a random occurrence and so different for each man.

I have my own thoughts on my husbands triggers and have had for some time. Too personal for here but when I've told others of his childhood etc (not in relation to dressing as I don't exactly mention that in passing lol) most will nod and say they have experienced other men with the same issues or whatever. So I figure his childhood wasn't exactly rare or weird but certain things in it could definitely have affected who he became.

But can I ask, are genes only altered by physical external factors like chemicals or hormones etc. or could more psychological factors like a traumatic event or maybe a difficult family environment etc do the same? Makes me wonder how much our early life changes us. Maybe none of us is really who we were meant to be. And perhaps none of us really even sees ourselves as we are or could be.

I read a great quote: "You are not an unbiased observer of your own behavior."

How true is that.

Hope the movie was good.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: The cure...

For the same reason being gay doesn't run in a family. It's not genetic. Genes can be altered by outside influences which causes them to change (epigenetic) but not necessarily inherited.

Off to watch Jason Bounre this afternoon. Not mind numbing and light but it's not quite epigenetic!

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: The cure...

I wonder too though, if genetics plays a key part, why we don't hear of families with threads of crossdressers through them? Where are the uncles, grandfathers, fathers and sons all dressing in the same family? According to research I just felt compelled to look up (I'm going to watch something mind-numbing and light after this lol) this almost never happens.

Why?

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: The cure...

I agree. It's funny how often this 'would you take a cure' question cropped up on the crossdressing site. No wonder wives tend not to stay there as it's mostly 'what if' discussions. I personally can't imagine taking a pill for anything like this but then I'm not a crossdresser which is why I asked here. Even if the result was better for your life, I'm guessing you wouldn't take the pill?

I wonder what my husband would do. I think he might be like you.

That said, if great difficulties were coming out of the behaviour then maybe an option to stop it would be good for other men. It's never fun feeling your choices and life are being controlled by something you feel powerless against. Some very sad stories came from my wives support forum about husbands who spiralled out of control and lost everything. They just couldn't find any real help or understanding in how to stop. So there is the other side where it's not so rosy to be a crossdresser.

But overall I figure nature itself picks and chooses what traits are useful for the time we live and what gets culled. If crossdressing is indeed genetic and it did become something that ruined men's lives it's unlikely the gene would pass on as chances to pass it on would be limited (out of control behavior would repel women) and we can only hope that destructive genes don't last very long. Though, nature is also a Bitch so she might get off on torturing us too!! lol.

So maybe crossdressing is indeed a desired, helpful trait for some men to have right now. It sure does seem to help the men who do it. And maybe it won't be needed in the future when balance is better for both genders?

Who knows. Again, you're still making me think here. Dammit, it's easier when I don't lol.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: The cure...

I don't think children should be given any 'magic pill' that may alter their personalities, they should have the freedom to choose when they are old enough to make an informed choice themselves.

If they have a pill for crossdressing then it's fair to assume they have a pill to stop you being gay, transgender etc. I think is far more important that society doesn't look on these things as being an illness and treatable and more as being something to be embraced as a natural variation.

I can understand inoculations against an illness that is life threatening but not something that is part of a persons being.

If we take it to the extreme then we start having designer babies and remove any diversity from the human race. That sounds a pretty dull place to be and extremely dangerous. You can't muck about with nature too much as it tends to turn around and bit you in the bum. The last bunch that tried eugenics weren't particularly pleasant in their attempt to create a 'master race'.