Hi Davina

appreciate your answers and you are right we do hit the contentment button as we get into our 30s and have been married a while and we dont even consider the effect it may have on our husbands.

Its one of the epiphanies crossdressing had on me to make more of an effort for myself and for him to always look my best and its cost us money in makeup and nails and hair dos and clothing but I do genuinely feel all the better for making this change in my life and hes a lot happier but his crossdressing remains (not that I thought it would go away)

Em (RG Wife)

There's clearly a distinct discomfort and feeling most women get from crossdressing that 'something else' is going on...and this seems the reason behind NIMBY.

Davina – Is the feeling around his sexuality do you think? A feeling he’s not 100% straight?

Is it a jealousy thing as in he’s got this escapism what have I got? Or is it an embarrassment feeling of how could I be married to someone who crossdresses what would other people think?

What is this thing we're so worried about? I can't say for sure, but I think it comes back to what you're saying,Davina, about women not dressing up for men and not putting in the effort.

Davina – This is something women admit, they admit they stop making so much effort to look their best, wear comfy flat shoes etc but as men you don’t realise what this does to our self esteem as it feels like “Shes stopped glamming up and looking her best for me”

Its the snare the man then “hahaha you thought i’d always wear high heels and sexy lingerie hahaha think again!” ….. “Ok So I’ll wear it myself”… “Don’t you dare i’m not being married to a Crossdresser!!”

It is the same 'something' that women complain about in non crossdressing marriages and I bet it's one of the top reasons women leave their marriages.

Davina – I would think most marriages end as the love’s not there any more or one or the other has cheated or mistreated the other? We constantly have to work on relationships as things change like kids come along, work, stress, berievances etc..

This vibe, if you will, that your husband is more interested in external trappings or whatever, than actual emotional intimacy.

Davina – Sindy I don’t get what you mean by this as Crossdressing is a small part of us pushed waaaaaay to the back of the queue in terms of our priorities which is why we only dress 10-12 times per year when we have the opportunity..

We’re more into the emotional intimacy but its a two way thing.. you hear the jokes about I had a sex life until I got married, the 7 year itch (which I think is linked to the sex drive change and the effort made where some mens attention is diverted to women “making the effort” and I know this sounds sexist and you may say why do I have to make the effort with makeup and clothing for him but at the same time women expect their men to remain the same then after all this we pluck up the courage and tell you we crossdress or something else and all of a sudden the women are up in arms as their man has changed but women change it affect us but we dont show it)

Crossdressing, porn, all of it can make a woman feel like we're coming second. I mean, we're visual too, but just not to the extent that it seems men are and what we are seeking from a partner seems so vastly different to what men seek.

Davina – I dont get all this men think this way and women think that way and I dont understand how a man doing a hobby is fine but if that hobby is crossdressing then the woman is coming second place. Most men I chat to who crossdress list as a reason for dressing that they wear things which their wives dont wear any more and short of finding a woman who does dress sexy or wear makeup or whatever floats their boat they crossdress.. which would you prefer he go off with a younger model or that woman who makes the effort who women scoff and bitch about or he goes away 10-12 times per year in private and dresses as a woman himself and gets some escapism and maybe some sexual release “alone” …. Of course some seek the sexual release with others and some have told me seeking sex was never on the cards but it has happened to some .. is this part of the NIMBY feeling? That he might when away dressed meet other tgirls and something sexual may happen?

Thing is, to some extent, most men are like this and most women do accept and accommodate it. But maybe the crossdresser just seems a bit more 'out there' with his attraction to all things stereotypically female and this can make women feel uncomfortable about risking him as a partner.

Davina – I’m just like any other man and I’d say better than most men as have a sense of humour, intelligence, compassion, thought and feelings and the bravado of being a rampant Alpha male to most peoples view of me externally but I crossdress as in I put on makeup, lingerie, high heels, a wig and a dress and chillax dressed as a woman 10-12 times per year and yes I dress steriotypically female.. it wouldnt be so much fun if I dressed like a drab woman in leggins a tshirt and flat shoes or flip flops with no makeup etc… Why does this make a woman feel uncomfortable risking him as a partner with all the good attributes are they wiped out by his very occasional behind closed doors crossdressing? Yes?

It's not just a sexual turn off (though there is that) but as you point out, he can dress away from her.

Davina – Yes he can dress away and this is probably a lonely thing and may lead to meeting others in the same boat and may lead to other things which I feel would be a bigger risk on a marriage than him dressing at home or in full knowledge of the wife.

So it's more than that, and I do think it's this gut feeling that you'll never really be number one to a crossdresser, that the crossdressing will always compete for his attention, and many women will struggle in a relationship where they feel this way.

Davina – Poppycock this is nonsense as i’ve mentioned we park Crossdressing at the back of the queue with all our male duties far ahead of the crossdressing such as being a husband, a father, the bread winner, the alpha male etc etc which overrules crossdressing forcing it to stolen moments behind closed doors when we can and sometimes the opportunity is not taken as the man things overule the chance to crossdress so its put further back in the queue. In terms of priority Crossdressing is something we enjoy and find escapism and relaxation in for whatever reason but we put other priorities in the way of it maybe to our own detriment sometimes if we’re stressed out and dont have this release or where we have opportunity to dress and unwind but circumstances change and we cannot do it.

But hey, if he's someone else's husband, no problem, lol.

Davina – There you go arrgghhhh really dont get this “It’s fine your husband crossdresses but not mine” lol

There's clearly a distinct discomfort and feeling most women get from crossdressing that 'something else' is going on...and this seems the reason behind NIMBY.

What is this thing we're so worried about? I can't say for sure, but I think it comes back to what you're saying,Davina, about women not dressing up for men and not putting in the effort. It is the same 'something' that women complain about in non crossdressing marriages and I bet it's one of the top reasons women leave their marriages. This vibe, if you will, that your husband is more interested in external trappings or whatever, than actual emotional intimacy. Crossdressing, porn, all of it can make a woman feel like we're coming second. I mean, we're visual too, but just not to the extent that it seems men are and what we are seeking from a partner seems so vastly different to what men seek.

Thing is, to some extent, most men are like this and most women do accept and accommodate it. But maybe the crossdresser just seems a bit more 'out there' with his attraction to all things stereotypically female and this can make women feel uncomfortable about risking him as a partner. It's not just a sexual turn off (though there is that) but as you point out, he can dress away from her. So it's more than that, and I do think it's this gut feeling that you'll never really be number one to a crossdresser, that the crossdressing will always compete for his attention, and many women will struggle in a relationship where they feel this way.

But hey, if he's someone else's husband, no problem, lol.

Response

I agree with what someone said on the previous page about a lot of TV men seeming to parody femininity. It can feel insulting.

Davina we dress for ourselves and how we dress is how we like women to dress in the whole with a variety of looks mainly casual sexy but we dont aim to insult women whats it got to do with women how we dress not like were flaunting it in the mainstream media or out in the street we’re behind closed doors and curtains a few times per year

At various times in my life, I’ve been part of the goth and industrial music/clubbing scene, and I’ve seen lots of men wearing skirts and makeup. Some of them look great: DH’s friend in a tight black t-shirt and a short kilt-type skirt, with boots, is something I wouldn’t mind seeing again, and I once saw a very tall man in a pinstripe kimono who looked amazing. Lots of the younger men tend to wear very wide-legged trousers, platform boots and tight little vest tops these days, which would look equally at home on a woman.

However, I’ve also seen some really unconvincing T-girls, much less often. There’s something a bit odd and (to me, rightly or wrongly) uncomfortable about men wearing flouncy dresses that are often age-inappropriate – too young or too old, the ever-present high-heeled court shoe and old-lady makeup.

Davina likewise you can see women who dress like this and you think OMG but what harm is done not all crossdressers can look convincing but so what theyre not doing any harm dressing as women

I don’t know whether this is an issue of over-feminine parody, or simple not dressing right for one’s age or physique, and it’s possibly all of these.

Davina the same can be said for women

I also don’t really understand men who wear women’s underwear – hell, I try not to wear most women’s underwear, which digs in, is impractical and offers little coverage or warmth benefit.

Davina we are attracted to lingerie its sexualised on tv and in magazines and catalogues and I have to dissagree as womens briefs and I like the lacy boy short type knickers are more comfortable than yfronts or some boxer shorts

I briefly dated a man who was a bit obsessed with underwear, and I found it a turn-off. Actually, thinking out loud,

Davina we love women in sexy lingerie and its a kick in the teeth for a man if a woman wont wear sexy lingerie for him in fact its gutting and makes us feel like a woman doesnt think us worth making the effort for we have sensitivity too and it wouldnt help to have our wives make that what we see as little effort to titilate us with some sexy lingerie

I can see how finding your partner in women’s clothes, especially the traditional kind, might feel a bit judgement-ish, as if that’s how he sees women, and by extension, you.

Davina you may be surprised how we dress

Response

I don’t really give a flying fig what any man I know or don’t know wants to wear until it came to a partner.

Because I have to agree with the poster upthread who said it isn’t so much about throwing on a dress and sticking on a bit of lippy Eddie Izzard like. That’s a style decision, which I’d be more than comfortable with. And proud of actually. I know a few guys who do the whole alternative dress and make-up thing and it is no more and no less than what is behind the reasons for women choosing the clothes they do.

But if it’s taken it to another level with the full uber-feminine get up that very few women themselves seem to wear of seamed stockings, red stilletoes etc and the resulting shift in identity I’d want to know about the driving force behind that.

Davina maybe its a substitution for women not dressing like this anymore? Women becoming more acceptibly masculine and because we find it fun and relaxing which seems hard for women to believe but try dressing as a man thats highly uncomfortable at times.

And actually, tbf, I’d be concerned for a close female friend if she felt she was having to display her gender identity so assertively with.

Davina are you one of the women who frown on women for making an effort to look their best or dressing a certain way as these women exist ive seen and heard women bitch about another woman for the dress shes wearing how shes done her makeup and the fact shes wearing high heels and that I dont get – why do women put other women down for making an effort to look their best? Why do women stop making an effort at a certain point in life?

That is a different kettle of fish to the everyday style decisions that everyone makes and I’d need to be comfortable with why it does go beyond them. And that need would be the offputting thing I think, not the result.

Davina Not all crossdressers dress the way presumed

Like I said only with a partner though, it’s none of my business with anyone else.

Davina a theme your husband can crossdress but not mine

Response

I thought it was because he was seeking validation from the peer group tbh.

I’d feel really uncomfortable if my dp wore any women’s clothes other than stupid fancy dress. Sorry

Davina its not validation its open debate to see views and thoughts and cant blame anyone feeling uncomfortable but you would have to see how it felt if he was a crossdresser as until faced directly with something you can only summise you feelings and response to a problem or scenario

Response

I literally have no opinion about what clothes you want to wear. I don’t know why you are posting either – for validation? Because if you are happy you don’t need the “rest of women” to be happy for you, this is the way to drive yourself mad.

I don’t know why we are being given so much detail about your life either, it is like your inner narrative is shouting “I am normal, I am normal, see how normal I am” I think you need to stay away from trying to get validation from Internet forums, this is likely to lead to insanity, validate your own feelings for yourself. I also think it is slightly weird to hide this from your children as though it is shameful, surely it is just what you like to do?

Davina seeing this all wrong I am normal but I crossdress I dont need validation as I have my head around why I dress but the question is seeking to see what women openly think of crossdressing and telling the children in todays society view of crossdressing isnt the right decade maybe 2030 it will be more accepted

Response

Im not saying it is wrong or that all cd should have counciling but i think it would be helpful in understanding why this is important to the indiviual.

Davina would a councillor really know what a crossdresser feels? We all do it for many different reasons so how can someone really councel on something this complex unimportant but important to the crossdresser

OP have you ever tried getting dressed up and going shopping and see what react you get?

Davina no as my wife would go nuts and if I ever did id dress and be sure no one would read me not react at all

I bet most people would not say anything. Maybe the barriers are only in your own head?

Davina maybe but think if I did this it would be miles away from home incase recognised making life in male mode difficult due to society views and predjudices and I dont think its in our heads.. maybe most would get away with it in a big city but not so much in a rural town shopping

If you want it to be acceptable in public then you need to start being public and challenge the status quo.

Davina easier said than done we all have different circumstances away from crossdressing

Response

I can understand why you have posted what you have I know a good few tv’s cd’s etc that have parnters like yourself so many when they do tell their loved ones are completely rejected so sending you a hug.

Davina thats why lots keep it a secret and also why women feel betrayed but take a step back and think how a man would tell someone he loves his deepest secret that he dresses as a woman think about how the scenarios play in his head with the one he’d love being wow do you really lets see how you look oh we’ll have so much fun with this being so rare if it happened you’d also better buy a lucky dip lottery ticket… its not an easy thing for a red blooded male to confess which is why some never tell. But so what if a man does dress as a woman whats the big deal? Society says its wrong … why is it wrong? Is it wrong for a woman to wear mens clothes? No is it wrong for a woman to appear and act more masculine.. no.. so why is it wrong if a man wants to dress up as a woman ...because society says so.. but we dont have to always listen to mainstream society.. someone you love and have lived with and known for so long is caught or tells you hes a crossdresser its not a bit lie hes no different to when you knew him yesterday but this big secret hes been guarding is now out and hes embarrassed and scared of rejection all because for whatever reason he enjoys dressing as a woman.

my dp didnt tell me about her female side she just came about ( i just let it be known that she could come out so to speak without fear of rejection and that was within the second week )

Davina thats very understanding

weve been together over 2 years now and at first it would only be weekends and “stay” for the weekend etc but now she shes heres for the most of week. we go out when money allows us she has her own wardorb we are differtnet shapes so she cant always borrow my clothes Shopping is good loking for both of us I have been told by lots of cds etc that its so nice to see a GG suportive outside of the home too (ie got to places like sparkle etc) we have a great soical life its not sexual for her more like stress relife (if she is unable to dress for whatever reason for more than a few days etc ) she goes to work in brab but wear stockings etc under her work clothes etc

Davina very understanding more so than most wives, I’ve not dressed fem under male clothing but good on you for this level of acceptance let other women into your secret of acceptance

Response

Is the OP wearing womens clothes because he either can’t afford pure silk shirts, or because he is lazy about tracking down a source where he can order them.

Davina waaay off the mark why would I want to wear silk shirts crossdressing is crossdressing not wearing male clothing of different fabrics

I get the impression that it’s more because they are womens clothes, not mens.

Davina yes thats crossdressing

This thread has opened up more questions than answers tbh. For example, I would like to know where OP has met this prejudice in his life, other than supposedly reading lots of threads on mn

OP do you actually leave the house like this?

Davina no but have thought about it and the predjudice and society view on crossdressing is an obvious one .. ask anyones views on crossdressing and you will get nything from ridicule to the word pervert

What sort of thing do you wear.

Davina normal dresses lingerie heels stockings makeup trying to look convincing

Where do you go and what are the reactions that you’ve met?

Davina dress at home or in a hotel room when away from home with work reactions well ive chatted to a few people on skype and had good feedback on how I look and from my wife she was pleasantly surprised I didnt look like a hooker or a drag queen and she said I looked quite passable

Response

I would have zero issue if I met a man I was interested in and he was a cross dresser, I would accommodate it in our life as much as he wanted.

I would have an issue with someone who was dishonest about this, who lied and did not open up about it, keeping it hidden.

Davina but you must weigh up a man has no idea what goes through a womans mind so the not telling isnt through want of telling but through fear of losing the person you love with misunderstanding of crossdressing

Response

^Why should he or anyone else who crossdresses have to have counselling?

It’s only wrong because society says it is, not because it is.

If you’re really pedantic about it, nothing is right or wrong, it’s just individual and group opinions. That’s how it is.

But if it’s not hurting anyone else, then it should be allowed to be done,

Davina here here I do not need councelling im a very rational and intelligent human being (man)

Response

I really don’t think that in case of OP it’s about being a woman for a short while!

Davina I cant claim to know how a woman feels or that I become a woman for a short while im still me just presenting differently like I would if I dressed as Darth Vader I dont all of a sudden want to force choke someone

He says he’s manly but likes the clothes themselves, there could be lots of reasons apart from wanting to be a woman. I can think of one quickly

– being starved of affection as a child (from the mother)

Davina sorry to laugh but nope this suggestion always makes me laugh as I find it rediculous

and wanting to be ‘hugged/caressed’ by feminine clothes.

Davina I certainly loved the silky feel of womens clothes and lingerie but nothing to do with my mother

Or – he thinks he looks good in a skirt ,and is very artistic/imaginative by nature (which doesn’t get the outlet in his physical job).

Davina may be an element of this but reasons for dressing is multifaceted and we all have different reasons and facets for dressing

It really does depend OP on HOW you do it, then you can ask why would people mind.

Davina – I can explain its fun, it gives me stress release, its escapism from male life, its just something I do then I say its a turn on and they go ahhh a fetish nooooo not quite but its easier for people to think its perverse or weird than accept that we just find it a fun thing to do.

Response

I have a friend who cross dresses. I have no problem with it but most other people do.

If my partner was to do it, I’d find it a bit weird but I wouldn’t stop him from doing it.

It’s not that I dislike blokes who wear clothing associated with women, it’s because if I was to be intimate with my partner I would feel he was a woman in a sense, due to the clothes as it brings up so many associations we are taught to have.

Davina I would expect intimate time to be as a man but open to time as a crossdresser but thats entirely upto the female in the relationship… if you can see past how he looks it may be fun he may be extra turned on but I appreciate its him looking like a woman being a turn off that doesnt help the sexual side which is a pity lol

Not that I’m opposed to lesbianism either – quite on the contrary. But looking like a woman on the outside and then being a man underneath the clothes would confuse my brain. :O

Davina My wife says the same shes even said she cant do anything sexual with “Davina” and shes not a lesbian but sadly I am a lesbian lol

However my friend likes that I don’t judge him on it. His Mum has no problem with it, but it’s been a deal breaker in most of his past relationships. It’s a shame really because if it’s something he enjoys and feels very comfortable with, then it really shouldn’t matter.

But to society, it does.

Davina another nail on the head hit well he enjoys it so why stop why put barriers in the way of enjoyment harmless enjoyment and how do we get past the stigma surrounding men who crossdress?

Response

I really can’t see a difference between a man wearing a skirt from wearing a kilt or a wraparound towel – it can look great on athletic figures, like Beckam’s.

What I do find off putting aesthetically is men in high heels as they can’t walk in them like a woman (generalisation but largely so, unless he is a pro actor cd, and obviously some women can’t walk well in heels),

Davina ahem I can walk in heels and probably better than my wife lol in fact in 2017 i’ve probably been in heels more than she has lol

and it does look like a caricature, and makes the muscle really bulge.

Davina ahem I have nice legs in stockings and heels so ive been told, so I see in the mirror and my wife even calls me a bitch because of my nice legs so really?

If a man is barefoot or in loafers/whatever, a kilt or a straight skirt is absolutely fine.

Davina so we cant wear high heels? And should stick to male footwear.. invert this I dont like womens flat shoes I prefer to see women in high heels so please wear high heels and nothing else oops thats sexist now invert it back still sexist… you cannot say men cant wear high heels thats just as sexist as us saying you must wear high heels as one woman was told when temping at a company with it being policy women must wear high heels (not a bad policy I say lol) but you cant dictate what someone can wear or how they dress really

Also sheer fabrics like chiffon were invented for the soft woman’s body – it just looks wrong on hairy/athletic men, same as a colour can look wrong on someone.

Davina pink is for a girl blue is for a boy as society says so and who says we’re all hairy? Hair on my body repulses me im hairless above stocking tops apart from arms and head lol and im licuky being blonde hair isnt all that noticable and hidden under a dress with sleves.

If a man can find a balance between thickness of fabric and right cut, it could start a real new trend, I bet if a celebrity did it it would take off with some!

Davina nail head hit – the right celeb crossdressed and voilla everyone wants a crossdressing boyfriend

Response

I’ve Always had cd friends but never wanted to have a cd partner. I accepted that they are doing it for release and a sexual/sensual/comfort thing but there is a part of me that feels uncomfortable with the parody of mincing femininity, because that is not being a woman,

Davina exactly its not being a woman its the fun of trying to “look like a woman” hard to explain and the relaxation it strangely manifests and the stress release etc its all quite healthy in a way for us to escape the testosterone fueled alpha male we portray.

and it can feel like the piss is being taken out of woman-ness, if the cross dresser is simpering and being twee and girly.

Davina I dont think we take the Pi$$ at all we may relax slightly and some may act more feminine (I probably do in a way my wife says im different, nicer or whatever) but the majority I bet dont try to act like a woman per se.

One CD friend was more like Izzard and used to wear colourful wraparound skirts and Mexican jewellery with big jumpers and doc martins, he was Mexican and had a beard! For him it was about comfort and fun. The other was more into drag and used to pick up and have sex with men when dragged up in heels, frilly tight things. For him it was definitely sexual. Both had split from their female partners.

Davina neither example above fits me and forms the big misconception about crossdressers

A male having distorted image of women and portaying only one aspect of women in a sexual way and objectfying women

Davina we cant help liking a certain image and protraying it you may be surprised to find what we wear and how we present to try to look more convincing than tarty as I suspect most women think we try portraying.

But its funny you say we are portraying and objectifying women dressing a certain way when its this certain way most women dress to attract a man snare him then get married and out come the trousers, boring underwear as opposed to lingerie and the dreaded flat shoes… so we go looking to see if you still have the “nice stuff” find you do ask you to wear it you stick your nose up about it.. we get curious… we try it on… OMG you made us crossdressers lol.. so we dont have a distorted image and we dont put women down or portray you badly in how we dress like I said you’d be surprised.

Yes, I agree. I think that is what many people (men and women) would find strange or offensive. It’s not the clothes per se, it’s the intention.

Davina my intention is to have fun with it and try to look as convincing as possible .. too many assumptions from this response

Remember the big shoulder pads in the 80s. Women trying to look like men. It wasn’t necessary and it didn’t last long.

Davina is that what the big shoulder padding was about?

OP, when you dress as a woman, do you wear fake breasts?

Davina Yes as women have breasts to not have breasts in a dress wouldnt look or feel right

Do you pad a bra or something?

Davina no I have fake cilicone breasts if your gonna look the part you need the right kit lol

Response

Lots of men wore heels in the 70s – platforms were all the rage.

In fact, men wore sparkly, skin tight clothes, and brightly patterned flares for starters, so I suppose current fashion trends have a lot to do what is socially acceptable. But you could always start a new trend.

Davina - Hard to start a new trend where crossdressing as in looking like a woman as much as possible is accepted, it would take some celebs to start doing it openly in public for it to catch on and become socially accepted.

It wasn’t so long ago that it was considered outlandish for men to have long hair. Sometimes, especially with teenagers around 14 – 16 age, I do have to look twice to work out if they’re male or female. That’s all perfectly ordinary these days too. Boys are starting to wear a bit of mascara or eyeliner much more than they used to.

Davina – Maybe goths or heavy metal heads but its still frowned upon and people will ridicule such fashion.

I really don’t think society objects that much to what you wear, it’s more about the reasons behind it, why do you wear it, what message are you trying to send.

Davina – But this does not line up with societys views on crossdressing as being gay, perverse etc even if reasons are escapism and fun and relaxation.

The fact that it does seems to be sexual is what makes it distasteful to some members of society. And, as you yourself have stated OP, not suitable for children.

Davina its society who relate it to being sexual and its fashion that has sexualised some items of clothing such as stockings and heels which is something were attracted to and enjoy wearing and its not suitable for children only due to society deeming it so and making it so misunderstood.

Response

I think cross dressers are boring, but that also suspect they think I should find it shocking or special.

Davina Im not boring at all and why would I want someone to find it shocking or special?

To me it seems attention seeking, but maybe I don’t really understand WHY people do it.

Davina its not attention seeking as most stay in the closet we dress for ourselves not anyone else

Response

Yes, but it really isn’t as easy as ending the relationship when there are three children involved.

Davina children don't need to know

Good point SGB about different cultures. It’s perfecly normal and acceptable for men to wear what look like wraparound skirts or dresses.

I think the difference is whether the man is dressing as a man with a particular outfit on or whether he is dressing as a man who wants to look like a woman.

As has already been said, Eddie Izzard did not try to ‘look like a woman’ in the same way that Lily Savage did. David Beckham looked good in a skirt because he looked like a man in a skirt, not a man dressed as a woman.

Davina ah but Lilly Savage is a drag queen not a part time crossdresser