Bringing this one back up as I still shave everything above stocking tops I’d shave my legs too if I could get away with it I hate hate hate body hair.

Why I bring it up is wifes watching this Love Island rubbish and every man on there is fuzz free all shave their torso and I feel a representation of the majority of blokes who make an effort to look their best … hairy chests are so 1970s

By: Emma RG

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving

I don't like to see hairy men.

It's so old fashioned I like my man smooth.

By: Sarah TGirl UK

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving

I shave all over even my legs

I even took up cycling to hide the fact I shave my legs and it keeps me fit.

If I wasn't a Tgirl I'd still shave my upper body as I think it looks better shaved.

How vane am I?

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving

Scott Mills was saying we should all shave our armpits in support of our Olympic competitors who all seem to be hairless!

Defiantly a fashion thing for the young and fit - not so sure for middle aged men lol.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving

Stubble on women is off putting and you get a rash when you kiss lol

I have stubble as a bloke sometimes growing a fasionable beard and tash .. I think I look better and more vane as a bloke with a bit of designer stubble.

Swimming today in the International Pool in Cardiff and only one or two hairy blokes there .. not that I was looking at men but one looked like a gorilla with long black hairs and arms face front and back with a huge beard... maybe it was big foot I don't know but he was strutting about the pool like an ape so I thought lets see how many other hairy bafoons there are and some were there with pitiful hairy chests but at least 90% were clean shaven chested including myself having shaved my body before going swimming to show off the muscles...

All the ones with shaven chests must have been Crossdressers lol

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving

I agree but beards/stubble are Ok though but only on men lol.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shaving

Socially wired or not it's ewe to see hairy women and hairy men look rediculous.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Shaving

It is a topsy turvy world on Planet crossdressers.

As you say all the things women moan about are the things we desire. Probably why we couldn't do it full time!

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Shaving

I think the older women get, the more we realize we've been manipulated by the media and men and all of it. I swear it's the reason you usually see old ladies hanging out together and leaving the husband at home. They want to be free of all this 'wear this, do that' nonsense lol.

But it's true. It's like someone decided that women are just here for men to ogle. That's apparently our true purpose on this planet. But our TRUE purpose is to raise children or nurture a job or do something WE desire. But somehow it became about women fulfilling men's desires and that now dictates how we dress and live and our lives and I don't think that's fair at all. It's no coincidence that lesbians care a lot less about how they look in a long term relationship compared to gay men. Men are clearly the visually driven species. Am I right? This really is all your fault lol.

Anyway, so in the context of shaving I know it's a social construct that many women would probably do away with if they could, and even though more men are doing it, I know my husband has programmed himself to associate it with attractiveness on both women and himself. He doesn't shave because hairless men look better. He does it because hairless women look better and he's oddly wired to desire the same.

I don't get it because life sure looks simpler on the male side. Giving up the simplicity of male privilege, including not body shaving, is insanity from where I sit. But as Davina said, his body, his life.

Still, I do think crossdressing, including all it's behaviours like shaving and make up and painting nails etc is a little nuts when women everywhere would kill NOT to do these time-consuming things. The world is so very topsy turvy on Planet Crossdresser.

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shaving

I'm not sure women go ewwww when they see a crossdresser because of society. It's more a 'I'm not gay so totally not into it' ewwww lol. I think biology will always be a tough barrier for crossdressers as it's a very different beast to metrosexual men looking after their appearance. We're talking men disguising themselves as women, which, if women suddenly started not shaving and only wearing army gear you do realize you'd have to do the same. Otherwise, you're not really crossdressing, you're just dressing in the past!

Thing is, you wouldn't wear army gear and neither would my husband. So crossdressing is going to be a very interesting activity the more along the masculine path women take things. In fifty years we might never wear a dress. Our hair might be short. We might be hairy. What will crossdressers look like, if indeed they even still exist?

Hmmmm, interesting thoughts.

Anyway, back to biology - I don't think social reaction to crossdressers has anything to do with presentation. It's the 'disguising as the opposite sex' that repels women and maybe always will. But clean shaven, neat, well dressed men were how men were a few decades ago (I don't remember the Frank Sinatras of the day being hairy gorillas lol) and I think women have always appreciated this in men. Just don't confuse this with crossdressing as it's not even vaguely the same.

It's just an added benefit that when not crossdressed you look metrosexual by default. And designer stubble is the best...I think all men should do this as it's very Grey's Anatomy. Boy there were some hot doctors on that show lol.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Shaving

Is it society that has conditioned you to go Ewww? If all women were hairy (pre-2015) would you have gone Ewww?

Do women go Ewww when they see a shaved man because up until recently it wasn't expected?

Do women go Ewww when they see a crossdresser because that it what society has conditioned them to do?

It seems that there are a few people with the power to control what society considers normal or correct. Mainly the popular media who have the power to change attitudes. Scary that we don't feel we have the power to go against the consensus.

The same reason the woman in the interview questioned why she shaved when naturally she would be hairy.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Shaving

I shave my body as it feels nicer looks nicer and I feel it's cleaner.

I would not like to see my wife with hairy armpits or hairy legs and it would be questionable if I'd date a woman who was hairy ar pitted and hairy legged. Ewww

My body my choice and I shave

By: Katie

Subject: Shaving

I just thought that I'd return to one of Sindy's pet subjects.

I was listening to Radio 1 the other day (I know I'm way out of their demographic) and a woman questioned why she had to shave her legs.

It got me thinking and I did a little research.

I know that Sindy suspects that crossdressers want to shave their bodies because it makes them more feminine as opposed to it being out of choice.

But since when was it decided that shaving was more feminine?

It seems that until May 1915 women just didn't bother to shave at all. Then an advert in Harper's Bazaar for a sleeveless dress showed a model with both arm over her head and, as you guessed, no under arm hair. Since then it became desirable for women to shave their armpits as the sale of sleeveless, sheer dresses took off.

Legs didn't really follow until the 1920s when flapper dress hemlines starting moving up! In the 1930s they started coming back down again but following World War 2 the iconic pin-up pictures of Betty Crable with her long silky legs sealed the deal. After that all women who wanted the look were encouraged to shave their legs unless, of course, they wanted ruin the effect by having hairs poking out their sheer stockings!

There is evidence of both men and women shaving earlier in history but this was more to do with health and cleanliness than fashion.

So, in less than a century it has become unacceptable in modern society for a woman to be hairy. It was started by advertising and we are all still subject to the same pressures today. We are now conditioned to find it a bit 'squeamish' to see a woman with hairy legs - especially of they are poking through her tights.

So Sindy, how do you feel about being forced by society to shave? Is it right? Should you be able to have a free choice?

Fashion now is starting to dictate that men should also be shaving their bodies. There are far more grooming products available to men than ever before and plenty of hair removal solutions.

Again it's big business that is dictating the change with new 'market' being exploited to sell their products.

Should shaving be a matter of free choice whether your a man, woman, crossdresser etc? Is it all about fashion and not wanting to be the one going against the flow (the pain of being contrarian is meant to be akin to breaking your arm and it is very hard to do as we crave acceptance).

I fond these two article which I thought summed it up really well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexandra-allam/why-women-shave-their-legs_b_7575456.html

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/aug/04/women-shave-legs-under-arms-waxing-shaving-plucking-threading

So do crossdressers want to shave because it is more feminine or out of choice? Is it triggered by more men shaving and us taking advantage of the trend or just something we'd have done anyway? Only part of our lives is spent in a feminine mode but you can't just 'un-shave' when you get out of a dress.

I get Sindy's fear that we bring a feminine part of ourselves into our masculine side but that is only because society dictates that women must shave to be feminine. Society conditions us in so many ways and sometimes it is good to question why.

It's ironic that I'm also conditioned to think that shaving is a feminine pastime and not liking hairy women. It just shows the power of the media in influencing society!

If the media decided crossdressing was cool then suddenly half the population would be doing it! Maybe, however, with different motives to 'genuine' crossdressers.

Food of thought.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

Don't get involved with Furrys Sindy if you cross that line we can no longer help you lol

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

Now my Furry friends are crying into their pillows. I really need to make some now, don't I lol.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

if your fella looks like a very big toddler get him a nappy and a dummy and problem solved... if he looks like an ape get him an ape mask and let him be a fury.. lol

ive shaved my chest hair off since it started sprouting ... being a raging alpha male this started when i hit puberty when i was 5 years old lol.

on the subject of women with sb'hort hair ... All women with short hair are either crossdressers or have a questionable sexuality as its a well kbown fact real women have long hair which they can tie up so when they drop their dress to the ground and stand in front of you in stockings heels and sexy lingerie every night they can let their hair down and in slow motion toss their heads side to side so their hair untangles and falls perfectly.

if my wife asked me to grow a hairy chest it wouldnt take long but shed have to go through the brillopad stage of body stubble and id have to put up with being an itchy scratcy sweaty neanderthial man for a bit so she should not complain if i clubbed her over the head and dragged her to bed by her long hair for a bit of you kow what whilst my dinosaur watched.

men dont like to be hairy and those who do are just lazy so ladies if your man is hairy dont worry about him maybe being a crossdresser as hes more likely tobe one of Sindys Fury friebds lol

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

Haha! Ah, those poor gorilla men crying into their pillows at night.

Don't get me wrong, I don't love hairy dudes either. I'm not really talking about my preference but more your motivation. I think it's convenient that men's fashion has moved into a hairless stage and here's hoping it stays that way. But I know my husband would still shave if the fashion was to look like a gorilla. So his motivation is clearly not to be fashionable but to enhance his occasional dressing. I think the two are linked in his life, definitely. But they're not linked for everyone as this post points out.

Anyway, I think all a wife can do who loves hairy chests (yes, they exist and I know a few) is ask him to compromise, especially if she met him hairy and years later he's suddenly coming to bed bald all over. It's not much different than the disappointment men feel when wives cut their long hair. You feel you're suddenly married to someone else. So compromise might mean he only shaves when dressed and not the rest of the time. If your wife, however, is like Emma, then you're a match made in heaven. :-)

Of course, here's a couple of negatives I have heard on support forums. First, there's nothing worse than sleeping next to a porcupine and shaved men can feel exactly like this if they're not careful lol. Second, it's a look that suits the muscly guys best, which doesn't mean you shouldn't still do it, but I'll never forget reading a wife describe her newly hairless husband as a very big toddler. That's not exactly going to enhance intimacy, is it haha...but hey, people also have to do what they need to be happy and can't always worry what their partner thinks. That goes for the wives who want short hair.

Compromise and communication...that's all we can do. x

By: EMMA RG

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

i dont like hairy men full stop.

Theres my contribution.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

There are a lot of posts about shaving on CD forums and obviously it does help to be smooth all over to look feminine.

I guess in this case that the shaving is a direct consequence of crossdressing.

There is also a fashion for smooth, well groomed men (especially amongst the young). It was a coincidence that my wife had her legs waxed yesterday and whilst she was waiting in the saloon a burly rugby player came in to book a back and chest wax. She mentioned it to her colleagues at work on one of then was interested in getting his upper arms waxed as they were too hairy. I had a friend who had the hair on his back removed by laser.

Men can make personal choices about there body hair these days.

Personally I'd prefer to be smooth but I'm not at present. I couldn't say if this was driven by my desire to crossdress or my disgust at being too hairy. I may or may not have wished to shave if I wasn't a crossdresser so I just don't know the motivation. Sindy says it bringing a bit of our female person into our male life. But equally it's part of our male life that benefits are female presentation.

It would make my presentation as a female much better but unlike clothes, make up etc you can put on and take off body hair at whim so you have to make a decision that affects both parts of your persona.

I do try and keep it neat and trimmed. I find it disgusting to see unruly hair poking out all over the place and I think other men are becoming more conscious of that fact. It is moving from the young to the older generations judging from what I saw on holiday by the pool last year.

I think the biggest problem most men face is where to start and where to stop lol. I saw one guy who'd obviously shaved his back (thick stubble coming through) but hadn't gone down that far and it looked as if he had hairy underpants on!

So in conclusion. Yes some guys who crossdress will shave because they want the presentation to be spot on. Some guys who crossdress won't shave because it's only part time and they're happy with their body hair in male mode. Some guys will shave because it makes then feel better (cleaner, healthier etc).Some guys will shave because of fashion. Some guys will shave because it shows off their bodies (body builders).

It's society that deems women should all shave and men should be hairy. But as we know society does change and I think eventually we'll all shave our bodies. There are now plenty of male waxing saloons around now and a quick check on the shelves at Boots and you will find plenty of male hair removal products. It's here to stay (or not) lol.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

Hair on my body is Ewwww yuck itchy sweaty puke bleurgghhhh..

Shaven smooth me is muscular, svelt, nice smelling and just like Superman, Batman, ... Name a hairy Superhero and you will see he's not one of the Big Super Heroes... We're brought up as kids seeing hairless superheroes (apart from on their heads)..

Then theres sports men .. name how many have hairy chests.. not many... hairy chests are out with the 1970s

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

At the moment I have hair on my chest, arms, back (in places) and my upper thighs. Funnily enough the one place it is pretty spares is below the knee which has obvious benefits lol.

I do think about going for the full body wax (to tight though looking at the prices!). Maybe it is to do with crossdressing or maybe t's my own vanity, I don't know. It would be nice to feel smooth and clean all over.

I guess it's difficult to say what exactly the motivation is and if I'd do the same if I wasn't a crossdresser. As Davina says load of men now shave. Just watch Match of the Day and spot how many of the player show off a hairy chest. Last one i remember was Ryan Giggs!

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

I think the majority of men shave theirs upper bodies.. This is based on 2 weeks in Spain recently not that I was looking at men but Brits, Italians, Polish, Russian, Portuguese, Spanish and French from recollection we’re all shaved.

I cant recall seeing one Gorilla by the pool.

If I crossdress I will have a good shave of body hair and face… If I decide I’m having some designer stubble or even grow full face fuzz to go for the obewan kenobe look and I’m led in the bath and see that I have hair on my upper body.. guess what… I shave it off.. I just dont like it I think in fact that upper body hair including under my arms and between my legs is gross.. so off it comes.

It definitely makes me feel cleaner and I think my body looks far better shaven than looking like an ape with hair everywhere..

I never dress if I have facial hair if I dress I want to look as convincing as I can and that means makeup and a wig and fully dressed.

I no longer crossdress in things just to put them on (We're going back 20+ years the last time I dressed when I didnt have time to fully dress)

Its got to the stage of all or nothing.. Sometimes I might feel the urge to dress and have opportunity but if we have something on today or a few days and I have stubble I wont dress and keep the stubble as I think as alpha male me I look better with stubble… but will still shave everywhere else.

The majority of men shave their bodies not a minority. It even has a name “Manscaping”

Not all Crossdressers shave either as I chat to a few who have beards .. I couldnt do this as it shatters the illusion of trying to look convincing lol

It doesnt set a crossdressing man apart from other men in regard to shaving body hair otherwise there are a lot more men who crossdress.

"OH My God your husband shaves his body..it must be so hard for you being married to a Crossdresser".. doesn't happen ... I bet wives of men who shave don't even have this pass their minds...

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Body hair

Katie, I'll add you have said you will dress with stubble etc and did for decades so you have done the no shave thing. BUT, you never told your wife prior to not long ago so I wonder if you can acknowledge you may have shaved more had she known?

Or maybe you wouldn't have. Maybe your 'femme' image can be hairy and I think it's awesome again if that's the case as the feminist in me HATES all this gender cliche stuff. I sometimes think my husband is just a chauvinistic pig for doing what he does and I know he's mentally criticising my lack of sexy clothing. I try not to overthink this part but dang...it's hard not to!

By the way, still just doing my civic duty here, lol, as I've also made peace with most of this. But these are the questions that can run through a wife's head and I'd love them to have a place they can visit and crossdressers will answer them honestly.

I still think the body shaving is a crossdressing habit, but hey, we don't have to agree to get along. :)

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Body hair

Well, that should reassure the other over thinker wives lol. No link to issues...just a preference.

It's probably easier for us ladies to see it as an issue as remember, we've likely been intimate with non crossdressers and most don't seem to even consider their body hair. Yes, more men are shaving, but I'd still say it's the minority.

Yet, and here's where it gets murky, ALL crossdressers shave. They really do. It's one of the crossdressing behaviors that sets you apart from other men. You shave because women shave, not because other men shave. Admit it!!

That's cool though. You're trying to look like women on occasion so you can't really be hairy, I just wonder if you realise some of your dressing has carried into your male life. Part of you is always feminine. And I'm not sure I'm overthinking this but rather just pointing out the obvious.

Can you really disagree?

And more to the point, why would you?? Women are sort of awesome and I think it's fine if men want to be hairless like us. I just personally hate it when my husband pretends it's a male thing and not a crossdresser thing, when I KNOW it's a crossdresser thing and in fact, he shaves MORE when I know he's thinking about dressing. You can't fool wives. Sorry, you just can't. :-)

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Body hair

Why do women shave and wax?

Is it that you feel the female body in its biologically natural state is undesirable and even dirty?

Remember, you're naturally a woman, You're naturally hairy.

I think the removal of body hair is a choice that we all make because of the way it make us feel. Yes it is cleaner, I once read something about body hair attracting sweat and dirt so it is more unhygienic. And I hate feeling dirty.

I've also got hair sprouting up where it never used to be and disappearing where it should be. I think at times I look more like a patchwork quilt so to me it looks nicer to even it all up!

I've spent 40 odd years not shaving and in that time I've dressed quite a bit so not sure that the two are intrinsically linked. Yes it maybe more 'feminine' but in todays western society it is also fashionable to be well groomed. It does help with the overall female image but I'll happily sit here in a dress and stubble on occasions, especially when time is of a premium, which isn't a good female look lol. I think that it is wrong to think that our motivation to shave our bodies is different to any other men but I do get where you're coming from as it does help the image we want to create on occasions.

I watched an episode of Bob's Burgers that other day where Bob was going to do a striptease for his wife on valentines day. Now Bob is a hairy dude but to be sexy (Magic Mike) he insisted on shaving his chest and back. I guess now it is becoming the norm for men to be shaved. I have a friend who said he shaves everywhere, the full BS&C and that the women love it!

The other thing to remember is that being hairy is more of a white male thing. Asian men have very little, if anybody hair. Some black guys I know are pretty hairless. It's just us guys who are descended from people living in colder climes who needed that extra layer to keep warm that tend to have excessive body hair. We don't really need it any longer with the advent of central heating so maybe eventually we'll lose it all together!

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Body hair

I love being a man

I hate body hair and if I wasn't a crossdresser I'd still shave it off

I look at a guy with a hairy chest and think it looks gross

Yes I think hairy blokes smell more than shaved blokes

Hairy blokes are in a minority almost everyone I know shaves their body hair get with the times Sindy and stop over thinking this lol