By: Sindy
Subject: Body hair
I've had this thought niggling for a few days....something Davina, and I think Katie, both said.
You like to shave your bodies so you feel 'clean'.
I found this a confronting description. So, the hairy male body is dirty? That's quite the psychological minefield there, isn't it. I know crossdressing is fun, and light, and relaxing, but if you feel the male body in its biologically natural state is undesirable and even dirty, I can't help wondering as a sofa shrink (haha) what happened to you both (and my husband) that lead you to feel this way.
Remember, you're naturally men. You're naturally hairy. I know women remove their hair as well but I suspect if we were as hairy as you lot and this was the cultural norm, that we wouldn't bother. We would just find ways to style it or something haha.
So, don't you think it's NOT the norm to feel this way about your male body hair, and that there IS some heavier underlying reason why you do this? I'm not saying I know what, but maybe your sister called your hairy legs gross one day, or your mother favoured your 'cleaner' prettier sister or maybe Daddy was just a loser and a terrible role model. I don't know. Maybe you really are born liking a clean body...though I can't see how as razors weren't always around. This wouldn't have been not that long ago.
Anyway, just to keep the civic duty rolling...I know wives puzzle about this body hair hatred a lot. It's different from the metrosexual dudes who do this out of pure vanity. I really do think there's something deeper at play with Davina Dressers. I have a tiny niggle that there's a part of even the most occasional casual crossdresser that doesn't entirely like being a man.
Thoughts?
Bringing this one back up as I still shave everything above stocking tops I’d shave my legs too if I could get away with it I hate hate hate body hair.
Why I bring it up is wifes watching this Love Island rubbish and every man on there is fuzz free all shave their torso and I feel a representation of the majority of blokes who make an effort to look their best … hairy chests are so 1970s
By: Emma RG
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving
I don't like to see hairy men.
It's so old fashioned I like my man smooth.
By: Sarah TGirl UK
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving
I shave all over even my legs
I even took up cycling to hide the fact I shave my legs and it keeps me fit.
If I wasn't a Tgirl I'd still shave my upper body as I think it looks better shaved.
How vane am I?
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving
Scott Mills was saying we should all shave our armpits in support of our Olympic competitors who all seem to be hairless!
Defiantly a fashion thing for the young and fit - not so sure for middle aged men lol.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving
Stubble on women is off putting and you get a rash when you kiss lol
I have stubble as a bloke sometimes growing a fasionable beard and tash .. I think I look better and more vane as a bloke with a bit of designer stubble.
Swimming today in the International Pool in Cardiff and only one or two hairy blokes there .. not that I was looking at men but one looked like a gorilla with long black hairs and arms face front and back with a huge beard... maybe it was big foot I don't know but he was strutting about the pool like an ape so I thought lets see how many other hairy bafoons there are and some were there with pitiful hairy chests but at least 90% were clean shaven chested including myself having shaved my body before going swimming to show off the muscles...
All the ones with shaven chests must have been Crossdressers lol
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shaving
I agree but beards/stubble are Ok though but only on men lol.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shaving
Socially wired or not it's ewe to see hairy women and hairy men look rediculous.
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Shaving
It is a topsy turvy world on Planet crossdressers.
As you say all the things women moan about are the things we desire. Probably why we couldn't do it full time!
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Shaving
I think the older women get, the more we realize we've been manipulated by the media and men and all of it. I swear it's the reason you usually see old ladies hanging out together and leaving the husband at home. They want to be free of all this 'wear this, do that' nonsense lol.
But it's true. It's like someone decided that women are just here for men to ogle. That's apparently our true purpose on this planet. But our TRUE purpose is to raise children or nurture a job or do something WE desire. But somehow it became about women fulfilling men's desires and that now dictates how we dress and live and our lives and I don't think that's fair at all. It's no coincidence that lesbians care a lot less about how they look in a long term relationship compared to gay men. Men are clearly the visually driven species. Am I right? This really is all your fault lol.
Anyway, so in the context of shaving I know it's a social construct that many women would probably do away with if they could, and even though more men are doing it, I know my husband has programmed himself to associate it with attractiveness on both women and himself. He doesn't shave because hairless men look better. He does it because hairless women look better and he's oddly wired to desire the same.
I don't get it because life sure looks simpler on the male side. Giving up the simplicity of male privilege, including not body shaving, is insanity from where I sit. But as Davina said, his body, his life.
Still, I do think crossdressing, including all it's behaviours like shaving and make up and painting nails etc is a little nuts when women everywhere would kill NOT to do these time-consuming things. The world is so very topsy turvy on Planet Crossdresser.
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shaving
I'm not sure women go ewwww when they see a crossdresser because of society. It's more a 'I'm not gay so totally not into it' ewwww lol. I think biology will always be a tough barrier for crossdressers as it's a very different beast to metrosexual men looking after their appearance. We're talking men disguising themselves as women, which, if women suddenly started not shaving and only wearing army gear you do realize you'd have to do the same. Otherwise, you're not really crossdressing, you're just dressing in the past!
Thing is, you wouldn't wear army gear and neither would my husband. So crossdressing is going to be a very interesting activity the more along the masculine path women take things. In fifty years we might never wear a dress. Our hair might be short. We might be hairy. What will crossdressers look like, if indeed they even still exist?
Hmmmm, interesting thoughts.
Anyway, back to biology - I don't think social reaction to crossdressers has anything to do with presentation. It's the 'disguising as the opposite sex' that repels women and maybe always will. But clean shaven, neat, well dressed men were how men were a few decades ago (I don't remember the Frank Sinatras of the day being hairy gorillas lol) and I think women have always appreciated this in men. Just don't confuse this with crossdressing as it's not even vaguely the same.
It's just an added benefit that when not crossdressed you look metrosexual by default. And designer stubble is the best...I think all men should do this as it's very Grey's Anatomy. Boy there were some hot doctors on that show lol.
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Shaving
Is it society that has conditioned you to go Ewww? If all women were hairy (pre-2015) would you have gone Ewww?
Do women go Ewww when they see a shaved man because up until recently it wasn't expected?
Do women go Ewww when they see a crossdresser because that it what society has conditioned them to do?
It seems that there are a few people with the power to control what society considers normal or correct. Mainly the popular media who have the power to change attitudes. Scary that we don't feel we have the power to go against the consensus.
The same reason the woman in the interview questioned why she shaved when naturally she would be hairy.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Shaving
I shave my body as it feels nicer looks nicer and I feel it's cleaner.
I would not like to see my wife with hairy armpits or hairy legs and it would be questionable if I'd date a woman who was hairy ar pitted and hairy legged. Ewww
My body my choice and I shave
By: Katie
Subject: Shaving
I just thought that I'd return to one of Sindy's pet subjects.
I was listening to Radio 1 the other day (I know I'm way out of their demographic) and a woman questioned why she had to shave her legs.
It got me thinking and I did a little research.
I know that Sindy suspects that crossdressers want to shave their bodies because it makes them more feminine as opposed to it being out of choice.
But since when was it decided that shaving was more feminine?
It seems that until May 1915 women just didn't bother to shave at all. Then an advert in Harper's Bazaar for a sleeveless dress showed a model with both arm over her head and, as you guessed, no under arm hair. Since then it became desirable for women to shave their armpits as the sale of sleeveless, sheer dresses took off.
Legs didn't really follow until the 1920s when flapper dress hemlines starting moving up! In the 1930s they started coming back down again but following World War 2 the iconic pin-up pictures of Betty Crable with her long silky legs sealed the deal. After that all women who wanted the look were encouraged to shave their legs unless, of course, they wanted ruin the effect by having hairs poking out their sheer stockings!
There is evidence of both men and women shaving earlier in history but this was more to do with health and cleanliness than fashion.
So, in less than a century it has become unacceptable in modern society for a woman to be hairy. It was started by advertising and we are all still subject to the same pressures today. We are now conditioned to find it a bit 'squeamish' to see a woman with hairy legs - especially of they are poking through her tights.
So Sindy, how do you feel about being forced by society to shave? Is it right? Should you be able to have a free choice?
Fashion now is starting to dictate that men should also be shaving their bodies. There are far more grooming products available to men than ever before and plenty of hair removal solutions.
Again it's big business that is dictating the change with new 'market' being exploited to sell their products.
Should shaving be a matter of free choice whether your a man, woman, crossdresser etc? Is it all about fashion and not wanting to be the one going against the flow (the pain of being contrarian is meant to be akin to breaking your arm and it is very hard to do as we crave acceptance).
I fond these two article which I thought summed it up really well.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexandra-allam/why-women-shave-their-legs_b_7575456.html
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/aug/04/women-shave-legs-under-arms-waxing-shaving-plucking-threading
So do crossdressers want to shave because it is more feminine or out of choice? Is it triggered by more men shaving and us taking advantage of the trend or just something we'd have done anyway? Only part of our lives is spent in a feminine mode but you can't just 'un-shave' when you get out of a dress.
I get Sindy's fear that we bring a feminine part of ourselves into our masculine side but that is only because society dictates that women must shave to be feminine. Society conditions us in so many ways and sometimes it is good to question why.
It's ironic that I'm also conditioned to think that shaving is a feminine pastime and not liking hairy women. It just shows the power of the media in influencing society!
If the media decided crossdressing was cool then suddenly half the population would be doing it! Maybe, however, with different motives to 'genuine' crossdressers.
Food of thought.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair
Don't get involved with Furrys Sindy if you cross that line we can no longer help you lol
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair
Now my Furry friends are crying into their pillows. I really need to make some now, don't I lol.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair
if your fella looks like a very big toddler get him a nappy and a dummy and problem solved... if he looks like an ape get him an ape mask and let him be a fury.. lol
ive shaved my chest hair off since it started sprouting ... being a raging alpha male this started when i hit puberty when i was 5 years old lol.
on the subject of women with sb'hort hair ... All women with short hair are either crossdressers or have a questionable sexuality as its a well kbown fact real women have long hair which they can tie up so when they drop their dress to the ground and stand in front of you in stockings heels and sexy lingerie every night they can let their hair down and in slow motion toss their heads side to side so their hair untangles and falls perfectly.
if my wife asked me to grow a hairy chest it wouldnt take long but shed have to go through the brillopad stage of body stubble and id have to put up with being an itchy scratcy sweaty neanderthial man for a bit so she should not complain if i clubbed her over the head and dragged her to bed by her long hair for a bit of you kow what whilst my dinosaur watched.
men dont like to be hairy and those who do are just lazy so ladies if your man is hairy dont worry about him maybe being a crossdresser as hes more likely tobe one of Sindys Fury friebds lol
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair
Haha! Ah, those poor gorilla men crying into their pillows at night.
Don't get me wrong, I don't love hairy dudes either. I'm not really talking about my preference but more your motivation. I think it's convenient that men's fashion has moved into a hairless stage and here's hoping it stays that way. But I know my husband would still shave if the fashion was to look like a gorilla. So his motivation is clearly not to be fashionable but to enhance his occasional dressing. I think the two are linked in his life, definitely. But they're not linked for everyone as this post points out.
Anyway, I think all a wife can do who loves hairy chests (yes, they exist and I know a few) is ask him to compromise, especially if she met him hairy and years later he's suddenly coming to bed bald all over. It's not much different than the disappointment men feel when wives cut their long hair. You feel you're suddenly married to someone else. So compromise might mean he only shaves when dressed and not the rest of the time. If your wife, however, is like Emma, then you're a match made in heaven. :-)
Of course, here's a couple of negatives I have heard on support forums. First, there's nothing worse than sleeping next to a porcupine and shaved men can feel exactly like this if they're not careful lol. Second, it's a look that suits the muscly guys best, which doesn't mean you shouldn't still do it, but I'll never forget reading a wife describe her newly hairless husband as a very big toddler. That's not exactly going to enhance intimacy, is it haha...but hey, people also have to do what they need to be happy and can't always worry what their partner thinks. That goes for the wives who want short hair.
Compromise and communication...that's all we can do. x
By: EMMA RG
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair
i dont like hairy men full stop.
Theres my contribution.
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair
There are a lot of posts about shaving on CD forums and obviously it does help to be smooth all over to look feminine.
I guess in this case that the shaving is a direct consequence of crossdressing.
There is also a fashion for smooth, well groomed men (especially amongst the young). It was a coincidence that my wife had her legs waxed yesterday and whilst she was waiting in the saloon a burly rugby player came in to book a back and chest wax. She mentioned it to her colleagues at work on one of then was interested in getting his upper arms waxed as they were too hairy. I had a friend who had the hair on his back removed by laser.
Men can make personal choices about there body hair these days.
Personally I'd prefer to be smooth but I'm not at present. I couldn't say if this was driven by my desire to crossdress or my disgust at being too hairy. I may or may not have wished to shave if I wasn't a crossdresser so I just don't know the motivation. Sindy says it bringing a bit of our female person into our male life. But equally it's part of our male life that benefits are female presentation.
It would make my presentation as a female much better but unlike clothes, make up etc you can put on and take off body hair at whim so you have to make a decision that affects both parts of your persona.
I do try and keep it neat and trimmed. I find it disgusting to see unruly hair poking out all over the place and I think other men are becoming more conscious of that fact. It is moving from the young to the older generations judging from what I saw on holiday by the pool last year.
I think the biggest problem most men face is where to start and where to stop lol. I saw one guy who'd obviously shaved his back (thick stubble coming through) but hadn't gone down that far and it looked as if he had hairy underpants on!
So in conclusion. Yes some guys who crossdress will shave because they want the presentation to be spot on. Some guys who crossdress won't shave because it's only part time and they're happy with their body hair in male mode. Some guys will shave because it makes then feel better (cleaner, healthier etc).Some guys will shave because of fashion. Some guys will shave because it shows off their bodies (body builders).
It's society that deems women should all shave and men should be hairy. But as we know society does change and I think eventually we'll all shave our bodies. There are now plenty of male waxing saloons around now and a quick check on the shelves at Boots and you will find plenty of male hair removal products. It's here to stay (or not) lol.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Body hair
Hair on my body is Ewwww yuck itchy sweaty puke bleurgghhhh..
Shaven smooth me is muscular, svelt, nice smelling and just like Superman, Batman, ... Name a hairy Superhero and you will see he's not one of the Big Super Heroes... We're brought up as kids seeing hairless superheroes (apart from on their heads)..
Then theres sports men .. name how many have hairy chests.. not many... hairy chests are out with the 1970s