By: Katie
Subject: Thought process
I was walking down the road yesterday evening and there was a couple walking in front of me. She has nice smooth, tanned legs. He had pale, skinny, hairy ones. I know which legs I found most attractive.
I tried to follow my thought process. If the most attractive legs were the woman's legs then if I wanted to be attractive then I need legs like those.I guess somewhere there is a cross over in my wiring. Is that how other crossdressers feel?
I couldn't see what a woman would find attractive about the man's legs. I can see a woman thinking that the girl's legs were attractive to men and therefore she'd like legs like those but not actually being attracted to the legs.
Taking the thought process further. Because I find women attractive I need to dress as a woman to be attractive. I guess that goes back to Sindy's point about do we find ourselves attractive.
When a man find a woman attractive he thinks that he need to dress / act in a way that she will find attractive. I get that and will dress / act in a way that women find attractive, however, I don't always feel that sexy. When I dress as a woman I feel sexy.
Somewhere my thought process must get muddled.
So dressing makes me feel sexy and good about myself. It's done for my benefit and nobody else's.
Does that make sense?
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Thought process
exactly.
One word out of place and someone reads something else it was a bit of a test to see how you'd respond.
An example how things can look and sound different and lead to other thought patterns based on choice of words.
I've just had two days away with work and next week is hectic so will turn into 8 weeks or two months without crossdressing .. I think the longest gap has been 3 months in recent years.
Exercise and diet plus work have distracted me from crossdressing. I've had opportunity and even went one day up to get something to change into etc but too much to get on with in work so didn't dress.
Maybe the week after next....
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Thought process
Hi Davina
I think that sometime it's the word we use and the definitions we place on those words that maybe different.
You say fun and I might say enjoy. I do find the process of getting dressed pleasurable. I can get excited (not sexually) by buying new clothes and can't wait to try then on.
When I say attractive I guess you can interchange with sexy. To me attractive and sexy are intertwined.
I know what I'm doing when I get dressed.
Putting it simply it's just my perception of what is sexy and enjoyable that take a left turn instead of a right. Most men go right and wouldn't find dressing as a woman either sexy or enjoyable. Most women may go left. I don't know why it happens which is why I termed it as the wrong wiring. It's only the wrong wiring as far as society is concerned.
People get pleasure (enjoyment or fun) from lots of different activities. I enjoy lots of other things in my life that I find pleasurable and even exhilarating. Some people will find them a chore and even fearful.
I find dressing as a woman pleasurable along with the other 10% of the male population (or so reported) which is why it is considered within the normal behaviour range by psychologists. It is society that considers it abnormal which lead to all the stigma.
I don't consider my dressing as an addiction as it can be controlled. I don't take risks just to dress but then again I know I will have an opportunity sooner or later. It has never been denied to me so I don't know what the long term consequences of denial would be.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Thought process
I agrees to some of your statement Katie bit not to all of it.
I dress for myself. I don't dress to attract anyone else but it is nice if someone comments on a photo of me positively on tvchix website.
Bit I definitely dress for myself too and not as some would perceive to attract men (yuck) and not to attract women just a pity my wife's not attracted to Davina then it may be even more fun lol.
Agreed which set of legs I'd be looking at too the tanned female ones although I'm more partial to seeing women's legs in black stockings or tights than bare so maybe that's a bit of a fetish or some subliminal turn on that I prefer to see women in tights than bare legs..
My wife says I have nice legs as Davina and nice legs as a man and although I'd say my legs are skinny.. The wife says I have skinny bitch legs they're also muscular if I wanted to tense them but I think in a photo or a stick your leg through a hole competition in stockings and heels I could easily convince someone that's its women's sexy leg's they're seeing.
But here's where I differ as I'm not sure I dress as a woman to feel attractive as sure I feel sexier when I'm crossdressed but I also try to.look my best as a man and this time of year it's important to start to get that base tan so you do t have the pasty white hairy legs lol.
It's become more of the fun thing .. Fun to get dressed, fun to do my makeup and make myself look different and to transform topped off by the wig and seeing myself look totally different then comes an initial bout of hornyness and feeling sexy in what I'm wearing and then feeling relaxed and stress free for a bit.
I don't feels it's wiring or thoughts getting muddied as I know what I'm doing and why to an extent as it's become something i enjoy to do more than a way to look / feel attractive and I think I'm at a stage where the urge and urgency of a chance to dress is controlled.. I've not dressed for about 7 weeks and a few years ago I'd be itching to dress but now I'm looking for more quality time to dress than a grabbed opportunity.
Maybe the next time I work from home ill dress but think I have my mind set on that night in trying on my wardrobe .... I'll have to cut a hole for my head to pike thru the top and for arms and legs. Bloom boom
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thought process
Must put on spell check I sound like the French copper off allo allo.... Small windows phone keyboard and typing too quick
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Thought process
I can look at Farage and think Ogre!! Beer swilling fag smoking man and see Beckham and think he's the better looking despite tattoos all over the place ...
But is this as the media constructed me to think like that and the popular opinion of women that they fancy Beckham .... As I don't fancy him in the slightest. Lol
I really can't look at a man and say he's good looking but can say some men are obviously ugly.
I know I'm average liking as a man but probably attractive enough and certainly witty and quick thinking enough and there's an example where you can be average looking but it's your personality which becomes attractive .... Until you admit to the woman you've pulled that you croasdress and they run for the hills lol.
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Thought process
I have a friend who honestly says he couldn't tell you who the most attractive was between David Beckham and Nigel Farage and I'm pretty sure he isn't a crossdresser, but then again who knows!
I think I can judge which men might be more attractive to women but there are always curve balls. Sometime I look at a celebrity who women find attractive and think 'really'.
Thankfully there is a lot more to attraction than just looks. As I said before intelligence, wealth and wit all play a part in the overall package.
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thought process
It's a great trait that you can see the other viewpoint, Katie. Your wife is very lucky that you do understand how she might feel about all this. I swear that's half the battle right there. The rest is really up to her and how much she wants to know/be involved, and of course communication.
And it's also great that you admit the dressing is only for you. My husband says the same. I wish the general public could hear this as most are wondering who you're trying to impress, given straight women, straight men, lesbians and gay men are mostly going to say 'no thanks'. But dressing for yourself removes that confusion.
You're clearing up a lot of angst here, Katie. Davina, too. I hope other wives are reading here and slowly understanding more, as I am. :)
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thought process
I think that women's clothing is very sexualised. It is used to enhance and show off feminine features such as boobs, bum, waist and legs.
In contrast men's clothing is practical and is really comparable to modern day armour. A suit or uniform normally gives status and protection. Normally a man will be covered head to foot in clothing, occasionally shorts or t shirts but they will mainly be baggy and not revealing.
Women's clothing will tend to be tight fitting and even jeans and T shirts will fit where they touch showing off the female figure.
Lingerie is designed to flatter and enhance. It is also designed to be sexually attractive to men. Just think stockings and suspenders, Davina. I think the majority of women just wouldn't wear the lingerie bought by their husbands or partners on a day to day basis as it's just not practical and uncomfortable. It's saved for special occasions when the dingy greys just won't do!
High heels are totally impractical but they enhance the legs and make women more vulnerable - something men want as it makes them the protector.
The majority of women's clothing is designed to make women sexy to men.
Make up is also designed to make women sexually appealing to men. Blusher and red lip stick to signify arousal. Eye make up to make them look younger and more appealing.
However, if a woman wears 'real' men's clothing and no make up she is generally considered a lesbian or a trans man. She would not be consider sexy by heterosexual males, especially if she's hairy and smelly!
I know that I have been guilty in the past in assuming that women can wear men's clothes but really the men's clothes we think about are jeans and a t shirts which are still cut and designed to be worn by women.
A typical woman wouldn't buy clothes from the male section of a store and expect to get away with it in the same way as we can't.
I guess it's this sexy, attractive etc feeling that crossdressers are trying to achieve by wearing women clothing. Something denied them by male clothing.
I can also understand the woman's response to a crossdresser. My wife wouldn't be as appealing wearing men's clothes, no make up, hairy and smelly. So when we're wearing women's clothes, made up, clean shaved and smelling clean I get it.
But as we discussed before we're not looking to be sexy to men or women. We're looking to be sexy for ourselves.
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thought process
I think clothing is an incredibly powerful way of representing ourselves to the world. Look at military uniforms or police - those say authority. Then there's ten inch heels and a micro mini skirt - sex worker lol. So many different messages given through clothing alone, so yes it's the female image that causes the negative response as obviously underneath it you're men.
I guess the message given by the crossdresser is perhaps where all the confusion lies. The crossdresser feels he's presenting 'attractiveness/desirability/sexual power/beauty. But those viewing the crossdresser might instead read 'confusion/delusional/sexual deviant/exhibitionist'.
It's subjective how we feel about someone's image and our own. I think people might have a common reaction to say a police officer or a doctor in a white coat and likely most people would be a bit weirded out by the crossdresser. But at an individual level they might have had a good experience with the police, or a terrible one. Maybe doctors failed them at some point. Maybe their brother is a crossdresser. So I think a wife's gag reflex at the female image is not a logical one that says anything about the husband she loves, but the standard inbuilt reaction of a heterosexual woman.
Clothes really can make the man.
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Thought process
Stripped naked there iare obvious differences between the male and female form. I guess it's the female image before that is the turn off.
It just shows how powerful clothing can be in forming our opinions.
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: Thought process
And when I say gag reflex I mean because she's repelled by the female form sexually - not because he's wearing women's clothing. It's a hard thing to overcome when you're heterosexual!
But it makes sense what you wrote, Katie. I think my husband dresses only for himself. It makes him feel better, despite what the rest of us might think.
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Thought process
I suspect that's really common for crossdressers. I remember talking with my husband many moons ago and I suddenly realized he was talking as though everyone found women more attractive than men, therefore looking female was the default position for attractiveness. I couldn't believe he felt this way and had to point out that, no, heterosexual women LOVE the way men look and are not attracted to the female form at all. That would make us bisexual or gay.
He was seriously surprised. There's definitely a wiring glitch happening somewhere!
As Davina has mentioned, she can't tell when other men are attractive. Is this the case for all men or just crossdressers? It's almost ironic that you're accused of being gay, when you're really so damn straight you can't even find your own male image attractive lol! At least you realized that to attract women you still need to do the guy thing. Most crossdressers obviously figure this out at some point and those who don't are probably still single!
Lordy, it's confusing. But I'd say it's common Katie, and maybe there is some wiring mix up going on where crossdressers don't feel like women, but they do feel women represent attractiveness therefore they feel attractive when looking like women. It seems a mix up between what you know to be attractive and how you feel. Other men either don't care if they're attractive or they're wired to feel sexy as a man.
Anyway, interesting thought, but one I've heard many times from other online wives who could tell their husbands felt sexiest in women's clothing and a wig while the wife is trying to hold back the gag reflex. Humans are just so damn complex lol.