By: Sindy
Subject: So helpful!
Ok, really awesome answers from both Davina and Katie. This is beyond helpful. And no, I can't ask these things easily of my husband. It would be....weird. Yet he would absolutely say everything you said Davina, and a lot of yours too, Katie. But he's definitely a Davina type crossdresser, this much is sure. He doesn't take it seriously at all, not like I do. I mean the need is very real and serious but he's perplexed at my confusion with it all.
Im perplexed why he's not confused about my confusion lol. So yeah, chatting is here is FAR better.
And I admit I had a laugh when I wrote about Davina talking in your head. I have wondered this though. What do wives think you're thinking? I don't know at a group level but I know I get these disturbing ideas that my husband is suddenly contemplating what outfits to wear so as to better attract other men (I know, I know, but it's so hard to lose this fear!). There's also this absurd concern that dressing as a woman has him thinking like one. Not sure how that would work, but I also don't know how much I want to be married to a man who's hoping to find ways to utilize a tampon lol. And don't laugh, I've read of crossdressers who go to these extremes. Not my husband, thank god. I suspect that would be a deal breaker...but yeh, unless we hear the sane thoughts of men such as yourself, our own ideas can really mess with our heads!
And fair enough on the public outings. My husband says he won't either. I couldn't do much if he did, I suppose. I was just curious why and I hadn't thought of validation that it's 'normal'. I hate that word, for the record. But it's what society uses to judge us all by unfortunately. If you do go out, just please don't do the fem behavior you mentioned lol. I can't describe it, but it's actually weirder to see a man act as he thinks women act, putting on a high voice and flapping his hands around. It never looks right and will usually just make him look gay. Women don't 'behave' so to speak, and I think we'd all rather see a guy presenting as a woman and acting as he usually does than trying to be female. If that makes sense? Or, that's what I prefer...other women might have other ideas. I just find the acting fem thing a little creepy.
I have more answers and endless questions. I really can't believe how helpful this is.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: So helpful!
Agreed Katie I think it's demeaning to women and wonder how many men after this experience indulge in crossdressing thereafter. The ape walking etc is so sad isn't it.
Can you imagine my stag night and the boys say we're taking you out dressed as a woman and out steps "Davina" to meet them walking perfectly in 5 inch heels long legs long blonde hair perfect makeup lol they'd have a shock.. In fact they'd be speechless it would be a funny night where they'd all be drinking looking at me in disbelief lol.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
It saddens me that you don't laugh about Crossdressing as it hurts you too much.
My wife an I sometimes share a private joke about crossdressing or find some humour in it at times especially if we're with friends and the topic of crossdressing comes up and we share eye contact and the if only they knew look.
We also sometimes cringe at things said about crossdressing and I cringe if I see or hear something on TV in a film, or documentary like I am Cait where they're hell bent on getting Caitlyn to date a man... she doesn't want to!!
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: So helpful!
Again, I agree. The stag night guy is just demeaning of us all. I don't think most women think too hard about it, but if they did they'd realize that these are men basically think it's stupid and silly to look female. It's insulting. But most won't give the thought much depth. They'll laugh with these clowns. I don't laugh anymore. Crossdressing hurts me too much, I guess. I feel a little sad about that, but I know I'm also on the right side of things. It's better not to support people who mock women. Crossdressers support us. I get that now.
And moving your body differently in female clothing is expected. I wouldn't see that as odd. I'm glad you also find the over-acting female behavior uncomfortable. I think it it would make most people uncomfortable. Something for others to digest maybe? If you're a crossdresser, don't go public and put on female mannerisms. It will weird everyone out. That's some advice from a wife who has seen this in person.
I feel like I'm giving public announcements lol.
By: Katie
Subject: Re: So helpful!
I get your comments on the OTT female gestures. I think that sometimes CDs are so desperate to hide the fact that they are men that they over compensate which results in their behaviour. In effect they become caricatures rather like a drag act.
There are certain female characteristic that most CDs will try and follow. Sitting cross legged for one. Standing tall with head held high instead of slouching like many men. Walking in heels and tight skirts does mean you have to walk in a certain way - no more big strides! I think what I'm saying is that how you dress will sometime dictate how you act. Many women clothes enhance their femininity and so it is a consequence of wearing them. It's really respecting the clothes and how they should be worn.
I do hate the 'man in a dress' that you typically see on a stag night. To me it is demeaning to women because wearing a dress is seen as a punishment and to be ridiculed. Those men take their masculinity to new heights to try and get a far away from femininity as possible - they'll go for the full on wide gait ape walk. Secretly I think many of them may enjoy it!
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
Spot on Katie
I'm the same cook, clean, fed the kids when they were babies, changed nappies, and other chores around the house 50-50 with the wife which years ago I would have had my dinner on my lap when home from work and a pipe and slippers brought thereafter as I chatted to my friend mr chumley-warner in a very posh voice and asked my wife to fetch me a brandy as a nightcap before retiring to bed as she ironed my clothes for the morning and attended to the children lol.. We've all changed and the lines of whats a mans and womans prerogative has changed but not in terms of clothing, fashion and image which keeps us Crossdressers in the dark behind closed doors.
Your post isn't heavy its reality.. Keep up the good work and I may let you write this book with me my wife and this fab nameless wife we're chatting to lol
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
We all like to conform to the rules that society lays down. Being an outsider is very painful and lonely. These rules change but only slowly. I think that younger people have less of a problem with gender non-conformity than older generations so the future may well be brighter for crossdressers.
You can question your own understanding and change your views but it is difficult to do. You are taking the right approach in asking questions to gain this understanding and who knows your own views may change an then you can pass them on to others. That's how society makes changes. You have to question your own understanding and look at the evidence which either supports it or proves it wrong. Davina has already shown you that you can be a crossdresser and an alpha male.
People in the media also help to change views. Eddie Izzard is seen as a cool guy and pretty amazing for running 27 marathons in 27 days. He also like to wear dresses but nobody really cares about that anymore. It's a small change and a step towards acceptance.
So ask away with all those small questions that are bugging you and hopefully we can help you to challenge your views.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
Asda, Tesco, Primark, Next, Peackocks, M&S 3/4 womens clothes 1/4 drab mens clothing... I cant even find shirts I like for work as I don't just want a blue one or a white one I want a stylish one but don't want to pay the earth for it.. then I walk through the female attire 3/4 of the shop with my wife and think look at all these options and colours and styles.. its not fair but hey ho we're stuck with it until we find ourselves home alone .. Lol "Home Alone 5 - Crossdressing"
You can be a butch Alpha male (Batman) and still be a crossdresser and agreed upbringing taught me to be this alpha male and to hide my desire to crossdress from an early age and social conditioning or brain washing is the obstacle in a lot of things.
We too wish women like yourself and my wife and others were less affected by the reality of crossdressing as it stresses us out worrying about you worrying about us and our relationships over something as simple as dressing up lol.
Maybe in the future? the next generation seem much more open to weirdness or what we today perceive as weirdness.
Please do ask every annoying thought in your head ...
By: Davina
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
Katie
don't be so soft march into a shop peruse Womens wear and be proud and purchase whatever you like any time of the year and if they say "Is that for you" say "YES I can't wait to get home to try it on".. they wont believe you and you have a moral victory.
Its happened to me a few times and I've always said yes and they give me a look after laughing of yeah right Alpha Man!! lol
Christmas though is a prime time for Crossdressers to restock lingerie, hosiery and makeup under the auspice of doing a Christmas stocking for your wife lol.
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
You don't realise how close to international spies we are! I've got an email account and accounts with a few women clothes retailers in Katie's name. So I can click and collect. It's pretty impossible for a guy to walk into a women clothes shop and buy anything without arousing suspicion. Lingerie is even worse, twice a year - Christmas and Valentines - is acceptable for men to walk around the women lingerie department without being thought of as perverts! Women get it easy - they can stroll around menswear without a care in the world, whereas we're always paranoid will be spotted and outed.
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
And that's funny, Katie. I figured the female names are part of the 'international spy' package. I'll have to work out my porn name and let you know. Maybe I'll choose a male one!
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
No way am I a Kaleb. Tried to pick something with no relationship to my own name. Picked the name Katie in a similar way to your porn name i.e. name of first pet and mothers maiden name.
Katie was my Nan's dog!
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
And of course, I'm half laughing as I discuss male image with Davina and Katie. (Maybe I should start thinking of you as Dave and Kaleb?) :)
Sometimes I think my confusion is valid, lol.
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
Katie, now this I wholeheartedly agree with. I have kids of both gender and buying clothing from the girls side is at least three times as interesting as the boys. It annoys me no end, especially since I like dressing my son well. It's not fair! When will it change? Why are the pretty things only for girls? I have absolutely no idea, but I'd bet there are plenty of non-crossdressing men who wonder the same. They just wouldn't dare say it out loud.
That's a big part of the problem. Other men! They won't stand up for themselves
Anyway, in this regard, I support either gender wearing whatever they like. I truly don't think this is my issue. It's sorting through all the other mental baggage that my own upbringing has brought. You know, the usual suspects: feminine-presenting men are gay; not finding feminine men attractive (not sure if this is biological or social); social stigma and the base reality that many of us subconsciously desire an alpha male. Turns out, you can be a crossdresser and an alpha male and Davina has cleared this up for me. But still...it's hard to separate the two. Male image is a bitch.
But I agree with you. And I think you're an enlightened man for wanting more than you've been given. I wish women like myself were less affected by the reality of crossdressing. Maybe in the future?
Meanwhile, I'm asking questions so that I might better understand. I plan on asking every annoying thought in my head as I have an inkling it's these small thoughts that eventually erode relationships. Everyone is so busy discussing the big issues, the why/how/when, that I'd bet my boobs it's the smaller stuff that eventually pushes a wife away. The stuff that gets overlooked. It's this small stuff that's bothered me for years, and it's still not answered. Until now.
Now we're getting somewhere. So, thanks. :)
By: Katie
Subject: Re: Re: Re: So helpful!
Gender is a really difficult one for me. It gets back to society having to give things labels. Certain qualities are considered female - being kind, sensitive, tender and warm. Why are they feminine? I consider myself to be all of those and many men I know are probably the same. Equally masculine traits might be about being gruff and coarse something I've witnessed women being so giving things a gender doesn't really help in describing yourself as a person. When people talk about being transgender they are associating themselves with feeling that society considered feminine. They say 'I like things associated with femininity therefore I am feminine'. Defining what it is to be a woman is very difficult and I'm sure if you got together with a group of your friends to ask what it is to be a woman you'll have a whole host of different answers.
I just feel that the gender lines are blurring and what was once considered masculine and feminine is no longer relevant. I do a lot of what were once considered 'female' tasks. I'll cook, clean and I shared the responsibility of bring up the kids when they were babies splitting their care with my wife so she could return to work. Funnily she wondered if she'd feminised me by letting me do all these things!
Sex and gender should not be confused although it is common practice to interchange the two. Sex is biological. Gender is to do with feelings, your internal sense of self, how you present yourself to the world. It's a social construct and not really helpful in describing the person when they can take on numerous attribute of 'femininity' and 'masculinity'.
Caitlyn Jenner is a transwoman. She would have had body dysphoria where she knows that she was born in the wrong body and spent years trying to fight it. For transwomen this is a very difficult thing to live with and the suicide rate amongst the transgender community is far higher than 'normal' society.
We (CDs) share a common interest in women's clothes but that is really where the connection finishes. We do not want to transition to become women full-time. We do not consider ourselves to be women.
So when you wear a man's T shirt to bed you're not really being transgender just a crossdresser as far as I'm concern. If it's assigned the title of male clothing then you are crossing the line.
As I said it's a shame that items of clothing, hairstyles, feelings have to be assigned a gender. Life would be simpler if they weren't especially in a modern society where these clues are no longer necessary.
Sorry to be a bit heavy but I think it helps to have an understanding given all the confusion out there. As both Davina and I have said, most crossdressers are not gay and don't want to become women. We just share a love of women's clothing. If you compare sides in a department store you'll notice how much more colour, varied and style women have to choose from. Quire often when men change back to their normal clothes it is said that they are going back to 'drab' which describes it well.
By: Sindy
Subject: Re: Re: So helpful!
Actually, I'd say you're in the majority. The loudest voices are usually the extreme-end minority who have far more at stake. The private, less serious crossdresser is not just underrepresented - he's not counted at all. He's too covert and occasional to count. I'd bet most don't even sign up to a website. You'd all make great international spies! I often wonder why standard crossdressing is included in the trans label at all. By such a broad definition, any woman wearing her husbands tee to bed is trans. IHow much in common do you really have with Caitlyn Jenner other than a love of female attire? Again, by that definition, many women are trans.
Just be yourself and leave the labels to those who seem to need them. If it were me, and I were born with a gender issue, I'd rather be called a person.
Enjoy your day off. I'll come up with some more questions to help fill it lol. I hope I happen on some your wife has wondered about. She probably feels weird talking to you as I do my husband. There needs to be an anonymous 'Ask a Crossdresser' forum somewhere, with an 'Ask the Wife' thread running along side. Imagine how well that would go lol.
By: Davina
Subject: Re: So helpful!
Cool so glad this is all helpful and enjoyable and enlightening..
Crossdressing isn't the norm (as far as we know) society sees it as weird in the whole but I hope that my perspective and that of others like me can help... But not all crossdressers are like us and I think were a minority in the trans spectrum and for some reason more serious trans people shun us ... I've been told I'm not proper trans.. In fact I was told I'm not a proper TRANNY to which I replied GOOD!
I've just come in from a night shift with tomorrow as a rest day so I'm contemplating what to do tomorrow.. Add to the blog maybe, have a spring clean, go for a walk to the top of one of our local mountains, start work in the garden or keep The blinds closed and spend the day chillaxing as Davina then go pick the kids up from school and take them to the park.. I will decide in the morning when I get up.
Keep firing those questions x