By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Catching up

Cool. I believe that if we can answers questions in an open and honest way with no hidden agenda then it must help some people come to terms with crossdressing.

I know that we don't represent the whole crossdressing community but if someone can identify with our type of dressing then it must help them question their own motivations and maybe come to some peace with their dressing.

The few months I've been posting here have definitely helped me. I think the questions asked by Sindy, Emma and Hannah make you reflect one why you crossdress and help to see things from a wife / partners perspective which can only help relationships.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Catching up

Yes lots of positives in emails from crossdressers and wives and girlfriends.

The chat here over the last month has seen an escalation in visits to the site from all over the world.

I'll add some comments to the above tomorrow when I have more time

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Catching up

Have we been getting positive feedback?

By: Davina

Subject: Catching up

Had an opportunity to catch up with correspondence tonight even through a migraine which has got better thanks to tablets and probably typing my thoughts in replies here..

Sorry I've not been on the ball with quick-fire responses but most of last week I was away with work (not crossdressed as too many colleagues away with me lol) and this week so far I've been working ate on reports and stats... So scroll down and you should see some responses to the last few posts.. hopefully with less spelling mistakes as done on my laptop instead of the phone.

Katie I will compile all Sindy, Emma and Hannahs questions into a spreadsheet and add into the help and advice part of the blog and refer people to our chat for how we've all responded as the chatter I think has moved a few people along with comments in here and several emails I've had from Crossdressers and Real women who did not want to comment in here but prefer to email me direct which is also fine.

I have asked a few if I can put their comments as anon or with a made up name into the guestbook / chat just waiting for the nod as Kate did many moons ago making a guest appearance in my blog following email chat and now has become a regular :)

Keep firing those questions xxxx

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

I have no idea now that I think of it! I wouldn't want my husband crossdressing on stage so Davina is right - it should be behind closed doors! And Eddie says he's an 'executive tranny' or whatever he calls himself. He's very out and proud.

Really, he's my worst nightmare lol.

He's still hot though. It's that 'thing' I can't describe. His personality and seriously brooding eyes seem to overcome the fact he's wearing a frock and lippy. I think if he was standing with hands on hips asking if I'll call him 'Jane' it wouldn't be so hot haha. He does a different type of crossdressing though and, right or wrong, I'd bet it will be accepted first. The 'not trying to pass for a woman' kind - I really think society will embrace that.

The 'Davina type' is actually more common (I'd go out on a limb and suggest it's the MOST common but also most covert) but it's also the most confusing. People can sort of understand the need to dress to correct gender dysphoria and they also sort of understand Eddie's love of female fashion. But ordinary men wanting to fully emulate women with no real reason other than they like it?

Society ain't ready for that. Maybe one day. This blog will help! :)

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

I don't get it. You're not the first woman I heard have that reaction to Eddie. Make up, heels, nail varnish etc.

But if we wear it it's a turn off.

Not fair! Why can he get away with it?

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

I admire Eddie Izzard for what he's done being openly trans, his humour, acting, charity work, marathons, and political views but his fashion sense isn't great.

He looks like a man wearing makeup and a women's things.

We try to look more convincing when we dress I think and we do it behind closed doors

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

And of course, Eddie Izzard is HOT no matter what he's wearing, so that helps lol. He actually seems to ooze masculinity and confidence whether he's crossdressed or not. And he's hilarious.

Seriously, what's not to love about Eddie!

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

It's funny, I once said to my wife that the world would be a better place if it was run by women. She said that some are two faced and not very nice at all!

I guess that on the outside some people are very nice and understanding face to face but are quite happy to gossip behind someones back. I was once following a crossdresser down the road. Obviously a man in a dress and it was interesting to watch the reaction of passers by. Most tended to ignore him and walk on by. Sometimes there were a few giggles and whispers once he had passed. I think nobody likes to think that they are the subject of ridicule which is why we hide it so much.

I remember we went to a panto with some friends. Obviously there was the pantomime dame and the conversation got around to men dressing as women. I remember my wife's friend saying ' of course we've got our own crossdresser in the village. His wife is so nice and pretty I just don't understand why he does it.' She is a well educated person but sometimes not knowing enough about the subject can lead to the wrong conclusions. Unless something directly affects people they are reluctant o find out more so the circle continues.

I do think that people such as Eddie Izzard do start to normalise crossdressing. I mentioned him in a conversation with some friends when they were talking about running. They had nothing but admiration for his achievement and nobody mentioned his crossdressing. Maybe we are breaking through!

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

Haha, I prefer your first thought - thinking is definitely hard for MANY people.

And my friends have married a variety of men and most are nice, ordinary guys who take a lot of heat when they're not around to defend themselves. I think you're right about the group mentality. Mind you, some of these women really do think this rigidly about a partner. If a man isn't some caricature from a western movie, swaggering about oozing masculinity, they won't look twice. And I've met their husbands. Let's just say thinking wouldn't just be hard for these men - I'd say it's impossible.

And that's mean, I know, but I'm annoyed. So I'm allowed to be mean lol.

Anyway, stepping away for a bit I know it's just how it is and I can't change it without revealing my husband. The only opinion that matters is our own and the people we love and who love us back. I was even wondering how different it would have been if all these women had known about my husband. Would they have been more respectful?

I don't think so. I know two who would be amazing and supportive and wouldn't even care, but the rest I believe would get quiet satisfaction at my discomfort. I've seen women in these groups do this to newly separated women, women with difficult children, or just anyone with a problem. I often leave mid conversation, I feel so disgusted with my own gender.

And you want to emulate us? I often think many women do not deserve your appreciation.

The Davina type are nice guys. I know this. I wish the rest of the world knew this, too. I just get tired that it seems it's still okay to make fun of crossdressers. It's not okay. I wish these people knew that they likely engage one of you in their every day lives, if not living with one!

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

I'm afraid then when a group gets together it can actually turn into a 'mob' feeding on the lowest common denominator. As you've said before those who shout loudest often hold the sway. It's tough being the odd one out. Human nature makes it painful to stand out and be the contrarian voice. If you feel like a lone voice it is often easier just to keep quite and let it all flow over knowing it will all pass.

I remember being in a group who were discussing a guy who had transitioned. The conversation wasn't very pleasant and I regret not saying something in defence of someone I didn't even know. The problem is that you're always worried your cover will be blown so you just keep quiet.

I've been on stag weekends where married men have done things that I just could never do. It's tough when you're in a group but there always seem to be a few rational people who make it easier to abstain.

These are probably the same 'real men' that your friends want as husbands. I'm sure given the option of a faithful husband who likes to dress as a woman every so often or one of these 'real men' she'd go for the former.

As you say we all have our 'kinks' and secrets and I'm sure many of your friends and their husbands wouldn't be considered normal.

I've read a few psychology books and quite often the easy option is not to engage the brain. If someone takes the time to understand then they are likely to be far more tolerant. Thinking is hard for some people and what should really be logical and rational is beyond them, or at least, being kinder they are too busy in there own lives to find out anymore so will just jump to conclusions.

I think that sometimes this 'rule of thumb' response leads to misunderstanding and causes problems for all concerned.

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

Oh yeah, and the other thing said by one of my closest friends who was with us (it was a day at the park with a big group of moms and my shrink friend brought her stupid textbook along) was just a constant jab at the 'gay' men. She wants a manly man and couldn't handle men into crossdressing or whatever. The other girls agreed but ffs, you ARE manly men!

Argh. Deep breaths.

I need new friends. Except, many of these women would be considered educated and enlightened. Just clearly not about men's kinks.

Vent over. I need a drink. :(

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

This is what I agree with. It shouldn't be listed with these other things at all but it is. I also didn't mention that there were a quite few other girls and the reaction to the whole topic was really sad. They laughed and commented and I had to play along. I hate that the most. But what are we meant to do? "By the way ladies, my husband wear frocks and is one of these 'freaks' you're currently laughing at".

And yes, they used the word freak. People are arseholes.

I'm just sensitive to it, I know. I bet none of them are really all that bothered or that interested. It's just something different to laugh at for three seconds. I'd also bet, given statistics, that one other woman in the group probably felt as bad as I did. I know other husbands must crossdress or even have other kinks. So it annoys me how judgemental people can be when in a group.

But, no, nothing is undone. Chatting here has been priceless and when I have these rough days I come immediately back and read through Davinas blog and the posts here and feel okay again. Please don't get rid of this website, Davina, as I'm not sure what I'd do!

Maybe the book should be 'The Davina Type Crossdresser'. I think it would sell out with at least 5% of the male population. You could give help AND get rich!

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

My husband and I don't talk much either but are also doing much better since being here. I felt sad though with my stupid friends and their comments. I'll recover though. The 'Davina type crossdresser' is just a normal bloke with a quirk. That's how I now see it so this paraphilia stuff really bothered me. I'll have to form a thicker skin.

Good to see you're still here. :)

By: Emma RG

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

Agree with Davina what absolute Tosh

I was shocked at first but never considered that somone would put crossdressing in the same bracket as a peado as that is so wrong especially now we have "The Davina Type Crossdresser" which has made my other half jellous lol why does Davina get the credit he asked well Davina did go out of her way to explain these things in the blog so deserves full credit.

I'm satisfied with the explainations given for crossdressing by Davina and Katie and my other half has nodded and agreed although still find it hard to talk about but things have improved

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

Sindy

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. To me it read that all the good work we had done here had been undone in an instant.

I do not believe that being a crossdresser also means that you are paraphiliac. Paraphiliac means you take the action / object to an extreme in sexual arousal and satisfaction. Not all crossdressers will do this so by inference they are not all paraphiliacs.

I guess I'd look on it as I like to have a few drinks at the weekend but it doesn't make me an alcoholic.

If your friend is referring to any mental disorder as a sickness then I wouldn't want there to be my psychologist. She cannot be judgemental in her approach if she is ever going to help people.

I have a pretty uneventful life and have never felt the need to consult a psychologist. If I ever thought that my dressing was out of control then maybe I'd be concerned but it's not. It's a private matter that does nobody any harm and I don't see a problem with having fun, pleasure or whatever as long as it does me no harm either.

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Depressing

Yes, it was just a message. And though I'm sure future psychologists are entirely professional around future clients and colleagues, I can tell you they're really not around friends! She doesn't mean any harm I don't think, but she's not immune to finding some of her learnings weird and/or amusing and discussing them candidly. I guess even shrinks are human.

So I did find the whole conversation a bit mortifying. She chatted about other things as well (child abuse issues which were equally depressing) and I know I was just being sensitive because it was a touchy subject. Oh how I would have liked to set her straight! I'll have to hope her lessons do this, however the books do seem a bit on the side of anything out of the 'normal' box is a disorder. I think it's all very eye-opening for my not very worldly friend. I'm not even sure why she's chosen this path as it's out of character, but oh well.

And I was also probably a big shocked that crossdressing is even in a psychology book as a paraphilia with these other things (it really is there along side the others including pedophiles!) It was not welcome news but I didn't write it. I know what I know from chatting here and living with my husband, but it can still cause that stomach-punch, flat feeling again. It's never nice to hear bad things said about people you care about, even if it wasn't a personal comment.

Anyway, you're keeping me sane today, Davina. Thanks again. I'm sure many wives have weird moments like this and wish the day would be over already.

By: Davina

Subject: Re: Re: Depressing

Sindy is just passing on a message here and it worried me for a bit that her friend had changed her opinions about crossdressing.

We are a breed apart there are far too many reasons why people crossdress and for some it may become a compulsion especially when younger and it's new it's naughty it's a massive turn on etc.. But it's not out of control affects no one bar us and those we might tell.

Sindy is a RG Jedi and her friend is a Sith trying to perform a Sith mind bending act.. Oh how I bet Sindy wanted to respond bit it would have outed her husband and her.

By: Katie

Subject: Re: Depressing

Most people with atypical sexual interests (paraphilia) do not have a mental disorder. There are over 500 different paraphilia listed many of which are pretty harmless but some such as pedophilia which are not.

For something to be termed a disorder the individual affected must experience significant distress or impairment because of their behaviour both socially and occupationally.

I thought that this was a good way of explaining a paraphilia 'Although many paraphilias seem foreign or extreme, they are easier to understand if one thinks of those behaviors that, in less extreme versions, are quite common. For instance, having a partner "talk dirty" may be a "turn-on" for some people, but when talking dirty is the only way that sexual arousal or satisfaction can occur, it would be considered a paraphilia. Others want to be bitten, or spanked, or become aroused by watching their partner. Viewing a nude person or watching sexually explicit videos can be arousing for most people. Paraphilias are magnified to the point of psychological dependence.'

Would you compare 'talking dirty' to pedophilia? No. So why even contemplate comparing crossdressing to pedophilia.

My crossdressing is not the only way that I get sexual arousal or satisfaction and so I would not consider it to be a paraphilia and definitely not a disorder. I am not psychologically dependent upon crossdressing to get 'turned on'.

I also think that you need to be very careful using the term 'sick'. Mental health professionals and charities have spent a lot of time explaining that psychological disorders are not a sickness.

You mention depression in your title. There has been a lot of work done to remove the stigma attached to depression to the extent that calling it a sickness in now very un-PC to even be called insulting. The same goes for any mental health issues.

Would you compare depression to pedophilia? There may only be a tenuous link but are after all both mental health problems. where do you draw the line?

I think that you need to get everything into perspective. Your friend is obviously excited to share her new found knowledge and has just started her training so jumping to conclusion on a few sentences in a book is neither helpful or insightful. It's like reading the introduction of a car repair manual and thinking you can be a mechanic on a Formula One team.

She isn't a psychologist and until she has finished her training I think that it is dangerous to pretend. Feeding juicy tip bits may be fun doesn't help anyone and especially you.

Transvestite fetishism maybe a paraphilia if taken to the extreme but in a controlled environment that does no harm to the participant then it is not a 'sickness' or a disorder and psychologist just wouldn't class it as such. Maybe your friend still has to learn this on her course.

As I said before psychologists in the USA have decided that crossdressing comes within the normal range of male sexuality unless it becomes a compulsive obsession so we do have medical support.

From what I know I wouldn't consider myself, Davina or your husband compulsive obsessives so as far as psychologist are concerned they'd just tell us to go away and not be so silly.

You have spent a lot of time understanding about crossdressers and it would seem a shame to waste this knowledge. Your own acceptance has grown immeasurably and so are you really willing to jeopardise this on a few sentences, taken out of context and without proper research in a medical journal?

By: Sindy

Subject: Re: Re: Depressing

Thanks Davina, I needed to read this. I agree it's tosh! But this is what they're still learning. A shrink straight out of school assumes a crossdresser has a disorder. That's not fair. Maybe the obsessive ones could do with some help but it if it's not affecting life negatively then why is it an issue?

I mean, I was thinking about the problems I've had with it and they're really quite personal and say more about me than my husband. Maybe I need the therapy and not him?!!

Anyway, just a bit of a blah moment as I was feeling okay before it. My friend is oblivious and I'll have to keep it that way. Just can't believe this is what they're teaching people. :(